What are the risks of using Auto-Rx?
- Thread starter Dr. T
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I guess my only negative was the spot in the driveway while the seals where reconditioned. I was not expecting this as I had no leaks before. Of course this is on an engine with 250,000 miles.
All else has been very positive and I now have an engine that uses much less oil.
All else has been very positive and I now have an engine that uses much less oil.
Auto-Rx could be the safest engine cleaning product on the market. It doesn't break off dangerous chunks of sludge inside your engine, it liquifies it (some sludge burns and leaves via the tailpipe). Unlike other engine cleaners, it doesn't damage the seals or the new oil with harsh solvents.
Don't use any oil labeled "synthetic oil," even Group III. Forget diesel oil unless you have a diesel engine. Use 100% dino oil, like Chevron/Havoline or Castrol GTX. The cleaning esters in Auto-Rx don't need any competition.
Dr. T, I think the cleaning esters also have a lubricating function, but I'm not sure how significant it is. I'm extremely curious about this issue, too.
As TR3 notes, the biggest risk in engine cleaning is uncovering damaged seals. This is no fault of the product. Leaking seals may stop, but bad seals must be replaced. I think it's worth the risk. Dirty seals only get worse.
The second biggest "risk" is that Auto-Rx works very slowly. Follow the instructions, let it clean the engine. Be patient. Yes, it's hard to wait. During this process, I took EVERY possible excuse to take long drives.
Don't use any oil labeled "synthetic oil," even Group III. Forget diesel oil unless you have a diesel engine. Use 100% dino oil, like Chevron/Havoline or Castrol GTX. The cleaning esters in Auto-Rx don't need any competition.
Dr. T, I think the cleaning esters also have a lubricating function, but I'm not sure how significant it is. I'm extremely curious about this issue, too.
As TR3 notes, the biggest risk in engine cleaning is uncovering damaged seals. This is no fault of the product. Leaking seals may stop, but bad seals must be replaced. I think it's worth the risk. Dirty seals only get worse.
The second biggest "risk" is that Auto-Rx works very slowly. Follow the instructions, let it clean the engine. Be patient. Yes, it's hard to wait. During this process, I took EVERY possible excuse to take long drives.
I have heard a lot of good things about ARX and my engine is a good candidate for treatment. But frankly, I am leary of doing it. I have seen posts where folks got smoke coming out the tailpipe, leaks developed, etc. I think most or all of these instances self corrected after completing the treatment, but it sure would make me crazy while it is happening. The engine runs great and I am inclined to just leave well enough alone. Also I have heard that running a load or two of diesel rated oil with higher detergents can clean things up, or that synthetic oils may help.
People freak out because their cars leak, or existing leaks get worse, or oil consumption goes up, or lifter noise increases, etc. I know, because I freaked out the first time I used Auto-RX. The fact is, the stuff is not going to do any damage. It will take some time to work its magic, and depending on how quickly you rack up the miles that could be quite a bit of time.
Not every car is the same, not every engine is the same, so you can't say that it is or isn't working based on whether your engine is behaving the same as someone else's. There are just too many variables -- seal material used, type of buildup, amount of buildup, age of the engine, driving style, piston ring design, normal operating temperature, type of oil used, frequency of oil changes, and on and on it goes.
In my case, my oil consumption tripled during the first application. Then it settled down. Other people spring leaks until their seals have a chance to reseat. The only thing I can tell you is, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. If you're the panicky type, I suggest you take a pass, because it won't do you any good to get half way through the application, panic, stop the application, and then go around telling everyone how lousy Auto-RX is as some have done. The full application is 1500 miles clean, 2000 miles rinse, repeat, drive additional 2000-3000 miles. Unless my math skills are even worse than I thought they were, that's about 8000-9000 miles. For a true accounting of actual results, I suggest seeking out those who have followed the full application to the letter, and base your judgment on that.
In my case, I'm in the middle of a new application now to stop a leak. I'd used the older application instructions previously to stem oil consumption. My results with the initial (old) application were skyrocketing consumption and terrible lifter noise during the cleaning phase, and moderately better consumption after the full application. But I drive a Saturn, and that's another story entirely!
Not every car is the same, not every engine is the same, so you can't say that it is or isn't working based on whether your engine is behaving the same as someone else's. There are just too many variables -- seal material used, type of buildup, amount of buildup, age of the engine, driving style, piston ring design, normal operating temperature, type of oil used, frequency of oil changes, and on and on it goes.
In my case, my oil consumption tripled during the first application. Then it settled down. Other people spring leaks until their seals have a chance to reseat. The only thing I can tell you is, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS. If you're the panicky type, I suggest you take a pass, because it won't do you any good to get half way through the application, panic, stop the application, and then go around telling everyone how lousy Auto-RX is as some have done. The full application is 1500 miles clean, 2000 miles rinse, repeat, drive additional 2000-3000 miles. Unless my math skills are even worse than I thought they were, that's about 8000-9000 miles. For a true accounting of actual results, I suggest seeking out those who have followed the full application to the letter, and base your judgment on that.
In my case, I'm in the middle of a new application now to stop a leak. I'd used the older application instructions previously to stem oil consumption. My results with the initial (old) application were skyrocketing consumption and terrible lifter noise during the cleaning phase, and moderately better consumption after the full application. But I drive a Saturn, and that's another story entirely!
MolaKule
Staff member
I would have to say no. The motor oil does the lubricating while the ARX does the cleaning.
I'm halfway into my ARX cleaning in my 1998 Audi V6. I went to add some oil and was shocked that the metal appeard 2 shades cleaner under the fill cap, while the oil is not very dark. Using a LOT of Havoline, 3q in 1000 miles verses 1q in 6000mi with strait GC. In our ARXing 1987 I-5 Audi, everything is normal except the oil is dark for 600mi. Consumption is a little high, 1/2q so far verses the normally slight amount of 1q/6000mi. 180k total on that car, almost all dino up till 2 years ago.
MolaKule, I'm just as confused by this issue as Dr T. During my Auto-Rx cleaning, I expected the engine roughness and loss of power. But I wondered: Do the cleaning esters in ARX also have some lubricating qualities? If the oil can't lubricate where the ARX is working, then does abnormal engine wear occur at these points?
I guess even poor lubrication by ARX would still beat getting none (in areas formerly occupied by sludge deposits). Or perhaps the roughness was the sound of deposits being scraped away. I don't know.
Thank-you,
Bruce Thanscheidt
[ June 17, 2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]
I guess even poor lubrication by ARX would still beat getting none (in areas formerly occupied by sludge deposits). Or perhaps the roughness was the sound of deposits being scraped away. I don't know.
Thank-you,
Bruce Thanscheidt
[ June 17, 2004, 04:14 PM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]
MolaKule
Staff member
In the crankcase, this is a ratio of approx. 24:1 for oil verses ARX. The oil will do its thing and the dissolved ARX esters in the oil will do their thing.
I think what we are forgetting here is that the esters are mixing in with the oil; i.e., there is no separation of oil on one side of the crankcase and ARX esters on the other.
All esters have lubricating qualities.
[ June 17, 2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
I think what we are forgetting here is that the esters are mixing in with the oil; i.e., there is no separation of oil on one side of the crankcase and ARX esters on the other.
All esters have lubricating qualities.
I have no vested interest in Auto-RX, but my take was that there were pre-existing conditions that showed up when the customer started using ARX, like stuck rings, sludge on the intake tube/pickup screen, thick sludge in the pan, etc.
[ June 17, 2004, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
There are no risks in using Auto-Rx it is a non solvent metal cleaner that uses oil as a carrier
only. Auto-Rx does not change oil viscosity or
oil chemistry. Auto-Rx helps oil lubrication by
giving oil clean internal metal services to lubricate deep down into every nook and cranny. No
oil can do this (only surface lubrication at best)Smoke coming out of tailpipes is caused by the effect of liquefying contaminants read the application instructions and make sure your
using Auto-Rx correctly. Auto-Rx can do no harm
overfilled or underfilled
only. Auto-Rx does not change oil viscosity or
oil chemistry. Auto-Rx helps oil lubrication by
giving oil clean internal metal services to lubricate deep down into every nook and cranny. No
oil can do this (only surface lubrication at best)Smoke coming out of tailpipes is caused by the effect of liquefying contaminants read the application instructions and make sure your
using Auto-Rx correctly. Auto-Rx can do no harm
overfilled or underfilled
Thanks, MolaKule and Frank. It's good to know that in spite of causing some engine roughness, the Auto-Rx cleaning esters don't compromise lubrication. I think many people have wondered about this exact issue. Please forgive my lack of chemistry knowledge. My high school chemistry was taught by the football coach.
I understand the esters being suspended in the oil, but what about polarity making them adhere to metal surfaces?
[ June 18, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]
I understand the esters being suspended in the oil, but what about polarity making them adhere to metal surfaces?
[ June 18, 2004, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]
Good Question synthetic esters do have issues with polarization to metal (why we suggest non synthetic oil for rinse as it breaks polarization
bond ) natural occurring esters (Auto-Rx ) will liquefy synthetic esters.
bond ) natural occurring esters (Auto-Rx ) will liquefy synthetic esters.
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