Since there is a hefty lot of Japanese vehicles sold throughout the world, I was wondering what the Japanese think of about motor oil. Do they follow ACEA or API guidelines, or something else?
Comments?
Oz
Comments?
Oz
What are the Oil Standards like in Japan?
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http://www.svctokyo.co.jp/english/jaso/m328.html
http://www.jsae.or.jp/e07pub/jaso_e.html#JASOE_E
M 331-91 Low and medium Temperature Detergency Test Procedure for EvaluatingAutomobile Gasoline Engine Oils
M 333-93 High temperature oxidation stability test procedure for evaluating automobile gasoline engine oils
http://www.jsae.or.jp/e07pub/jaso_e.html#JASOE_E
M 331-91 Low and medium Temperature Detergency Test Procedure for EvaluatingAutomobile Gasoline Engine Oils
M 333-93 High temperature oxidation stability test procedure for evaluating automobile gasoline engine oils
Japan has the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization, or JASO.
Good links, Ken.
Oz, API does work with Japan's auto manufacturers, just as with the US's & others, so even if the standards are different the specs may be largely the same.
Reading a bit more on the ISO thing makes me think the different standards bodies are all going to be assimilated into one WTO-centric standards publisher (ISO) with national representation & manufacturer input. Somewhat Orwellian but it makes sense from the big business point of view: One set of international standards with API at the helm for petroleum.
David
Oz, API does work with Japan's auto manufacturers, just as with the US's & others, so even if the standards are different the specs may be largely the same.
Reading a bit more on the ISO thing makes me think the different standards bodies are all going to be assimilated into one WTO-centric standards publisher (ISO) with national representation & manufacturer input. Somewhat Orwellian but it makes sense from the big business point of view: One set of international standards with API at the helm for petroleum.
David
Regards,
Oz
I don't think I said that. In fact, I'm still trying to figure out what I said that sounded like that.
Just meant to say the standards are similar under the covers. They test similar qualities though some have different limits (i.e. API Phosphorous limits for our CAFE).
The part about worldwide/ISO petro standards came from my searching the last few days. I posted a bit about it in another standards thread and will try to come up with a summary as I put references together (unless someone here is kind enough to lay out the situation).
David
Now I know most people here are American and API is the world's most well known oil standard certification institute. But I have reason to believe the ACEA and JASO are more stringent on oil standard then the API. In another word, ACEA & JASO oil are probably better. From my reading on the net and my own thinking, here's my reasons for saying so:
1. European and Japanese diesel engine are generally more compact and produce more power per c.c. compared to American engine. That places greater demand on the oil.
2. JASO has addressed the issue of EGR earlier then API-CH4 with their JASO DX-1/CH-1 oil standard, so would that make them more advanced? Maybe.
Since I am driving a Jap diesel rig, I stick with JASO because I believe there are some peculiar requirement, eg. favor higher sulfated ash.
No flaming pls.
[ November 02, 2002, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: konghh ]
1. European and Japanese diesel engine are generally more compact and produce more power per c.c. compared to American engine. That places greater demand on the oil.
2. JASO has addressed the issue of EGR earlier then API-CH4 with their JASO DX-1/CH-1 oil standard, so would that make them more advanced? Maybe.
Since I am driving a Jap diesel rig, I stick with JASO because I believe there are some peculiar requirement, eg. favor higher sulfated ash.
No flaming pls.
[ November 02, 2002, 11:06 PM: Message edited by: konghh ]
funny thing, a friend of mine here in my home town builds Honda race engines for some race teams primarily in the US. He buys a fair bit of Japanese spec engines (JDM) that are all reported to have 40,000 miles or less on them. I bought some oil cooler parts from one of those engines which I transplanted to my 99 b16a engine. When I looked at the engine that the parts were coming from,I noticed that the internal parts of that engine had a dark appearance to them, almost like it had a fair bit of deposits or varnish on the parts. My friend told me that all of the used engines that he gets from Japan had that look to them internally. He wasn't sure if they had different oil specs over there, but the different appearance seemed to be oil related. I really don't know what that means. He had a handful of engines in the shop at the time and all of the JDM spec ones had that same appearance to them. I found that to be strange ?.
[ November 03, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: JSIR ]
[ November 03, 2002, 01:05 AM: Message edited by: JSIR ]
The vast majority of the vehicles here are Japanese or Korean, with a sprinkling of Brazilian, German, Mexican, US, and maybe a dozen British Land Rovers. About 50% are diesel. Actually, 50% are used Japanese cars and trucks that have been locally converted from left-hand drive to right hand drive. From what I have seen my opinion is that the Jaso standards are behind the API and ACEA. These vehicles come with about 130,000 Km on the odometer and are smoking, almost immediately in need of rebuild. When taken apart they have 3 times the varnish and sludge as the others. Of course I do not know exactly what conditions they were used in, but 6 to 8 year old vehicles, from Corollas to medium sized trucks should not be in that condition. My 95 4Runner 2.8 diesel has run entirely in Bolivia on the latest group I API spec I've had since new. at 100,000 km it was spotless. Last year my accountant bought one ot the "transformers" 1994 4Runner used in Japan. It has 120,000 km and he had to rebuild the engine as soon as he got it. The inside was covered with varnish and sludge.
Of all the standards, I believe that ACEA is far ahead of the API. Look at seal tests and NOACK.
Of all the standards, I believe that ACEA is far ahead of the API. Look at seal tests and NOACK.
o.k. maybe I got things mixed up a bit. My understanidng regarding diesel oil JASO spec. is this. They had a JASO CD and CD+ before they go for the JASO DX-1/CH-1 oil in 2000 (?) that's designed for EGR, amongs others. I believe the CD and CD+ were behind the API but they leapfrogged ahead with the DX/CH rating.
Right up till 2001, brand new Isuzu engine sold in Asia were still recommending API-CD. A very odd thing to do considering API-CD were considered to be obsolete by API themselve. Japanese OEM were supposed to start recommending JASO DX-1 upon the availability of that. So maybe all those used jap's engine were on inferior CD all these times?
Right up till 2001, brand new Isuzu engine sold in Asia were still recommending API-CD. A very odd thing to do considering API-CD were considered to be obsolete by API themselve. Japanese OEM were supposed to start recommending JASO DX-1 upon the availability of that. So maybe all those used jap's engine were on inferior CD all these times?
Another slant. Here in Oz thousands of Japanese vehicles are imported. Two things are well known. Most have speedo's rewound to lower figures, there are almost none with service records, and last they rarely get serviced there anyway as they are 'throw aways' if you get my drift?. A mate has a friend in Japan and it took 6 mths of searching to find a Soarer (Lexus SC300 I think it's called in the U.S?) that had service records and legit kms (sure is nice). Maybe the sludging is caused by the above, not inferior oil spec?
They may be wound back, but I saw them with those Kms on them in the port in Chile where they are still right-hand drive, normally nothing touched on the tens of thousands of $500 clunkers (that somehow have ocean freight and profit in them).
One of the teltale signs is when the timing belt light comes on.... it's 100,000 km without looking at the odometer......... At least on the Runner. Never tried to figure out where it gets it's ticking.
One of the teltale signs is when the timing belt light comes on.... it's 100,000 km without looking at the odometer......... At least on the Runner. Never tried to figure out where it gets it's ticking.
Strange info.
Right hand drive cars are not allowed in Chile. Used cars can't legally be imported to Chile either (nor can they be licensed).
They were probably destined for somewhere else (Bolivia, Peru??).
Right hand drive cars are not allowed in Chile. Used cars can't legally be imported to Chile either (nor can they be licensed).
They were probably destined for somewhere else (Bolivia, Peru??).
my take:
Japanese are cooperating with USA developing ILSAC standards. Will ILSAC replace JASO for gasoline motors?
European has the most common sense rating system:
3 purposes:
A = gasoline
B = light duty diesel [passenger auto]
E = diesel truck
within the gasoline category, they have 4 sub-categories:
1 = economy
2 = old timer motor
3 = performance/extended drain
5 = performance/extended drain economy
An oil may be A1 & A5 OR A2 & A3 but no other combos are allowed within the A class. An oil may also meet an A spec and a B spec. Newer revisions of the specs are noted by adding the two-digit year code to the spec. As in: A1'98 = the 1998 spec for A1.
In the european model, not all 30wt oils have to be economy.
Compare to USA:
S = all gasoline motors
C = all diesel motors
ILSAC = all "economy" gasoline motors.
In the USA model you will not find many retail 30wt multigrade oils that are not ILSAC since new car warranties require ILSAC. Unfortunately.
Pennzoil High Mileage 10W30 being a noteable exception.
One of the requirements in the ACEA A3 and A5 standards I really like is the requirement for the viscosity to stay in grade after a certain endurance test.
[ November 10, 2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: impala_sc ]
Japanese are cooperating with USA developing ILSAC standards. Will ILSAC replace JASO for gasoline motors?
European has the most common sense rating system:
3 purposes:
A = gasoline
B = light duty diesel [passenger auto]
E = diesel truck
within the gasoline category, they have 4 sub-categories:
1 = economy
2 = old timer motor
3 = performance/extended drain
5 = performance/extended drain economy
An oil may be A1 & A5 OR A2 & A3 but no other combos are allowed within the A class. An oil may also meet an A spec and a B spec. Newer revisions of the specs are noted by adding the two-digit year code to the spec. As in: A1'98 = the 1998 spec for A1.
In the european model, not all 30wt oils have to be economy.
Compare to USA:
S = all gasoline motors
C = all diesel motors
ILSAC = all "economy" gasoline motors.
In the USA model you will not find many retail 30wt multigrade oils that are not ILSAC since new car warranties require ILSAC. Unfortunately.
Pennzoil High Mileage 10W30 being a noteable exception.
One of the requirements in the ACEA A3 and A5 standards I really like is the requirement for the viscosity to stay in grade after a certain endurance test.
[ November 10, 2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: impala_sc ]
Typo? What typo?
Thanks. I'd hate to confuse anyone.
Thanks. I'd hate to confuse anyone.
Himiler..... Chile just had the business of converting them since they couldn't be imported to neighboring contries as right-hand drive. So you pick it out, they make money converting, and have no warantee or other responsibilities. Now even after transforming them they are banned from here because too many of them fell apart 3 months later.
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