What additives DO NOT show up in uoa's?

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Originally Posted By: m6pwr
Are there any additives that could be in an oil that would not be revealed in a typical uoa?
Yes any organic (carbon based) additive, amines, amides and any of the carbon ringed (phen-) additives, etc.......ie there are plenty of additives that don't show in a simple UOA. I think Molakule had a quiz on this once. Do a search.
 

m6pwr

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Should rephrase my question: Are there any additives useful in breaking-in a new or rebuilt engine that DO NOT show up in a uoa of the factory fill?
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: m6pwr
Should rephrase my question: Are there any additives useful in breaking-in a new or rebuilt engine that DO NOT show up in a uoa of the factory fill?
Yes, what Pablo stated previously still applies.
 

m6pwr

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OK. Thanks, Pablo and Molakule. I did a search of BITOG and read Molakule's quiz on multifunction additives which lists a bunch of adds that can be used for AW purposes. I'm not a chemist but from the looks of it there are many AW adds that might be in the factory fill but never show up in the first uoa. Doug Hillary wrote a piece that appears on BITOG main site that says the following: "Many modern engines have unique lubricants as their Factory fill and in some cases a special specification lubricant many be needed . . . This is for specific “bedding in” reasons and often depends on the engine’s design and certainly on its “wear face” metallurgy! People that chose to ignore the Manufacturer’s advice concerning the first oil change period and the lubricant to be used then are IMO quite foolhardy – especially if they intend to keep their vehicle for many years." All sounds logical to me. Nevertheless, there are many folks on the BMW forums (and some on BITOG, too) who drain the factory fill early (well before the oem's recommendation) in order to "wash out excessive wear metals". Counterproductive and unnecessary.
 
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And VOAs are good for what, then? If you can't find out what is in it ... you end up with nothing to compare. So you have to trust the spec sheets ... and then: "proprietary info"! New oils are a proprietary swamp sand IMO. So I, at least, put it on as thick as molasses and go, doh!
 
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MolaKule

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Well now you shifted to the topic to smile early draining or not. Somewhere else on BITOG I posted a list of additives or chemistries that would not be seen in a $20-35 VUO or UOA. Dispersant - Succinic ashless dispersants Cleaners - Ethoxylated alcohols AW - Polymer Esters, Ionic Liquids Friction Modifiers - ashless friction modifiers such as GMO and other fatty acids And any other chemistry that may be ashless. As far as early oil changes in a new engine and FF oil, I look at it this way: It is my vehicle and my engine so I will change the FF oil and filter at 500 miles if there are no signs of oil consumption during that period. If there is, I may take it to 1500 miles. What you want in a break-in (run-in) oil for a rebuilt engine is plenty of ZDDP from an oil that shows about 1200 ppm of zinc and phosphorous, + ,- 300 ppm with little or no friction modification. If you are going to do UOA's for trending and to track oil condition over time, you need a VOA for any oil you are using since formulations have been changing quite a bit as of late. The VOA will show you what the CURRENT, visible oil mix is to establish a baseline. For example, if the oil manufacturer changes to a sodium multi-functional additive component with 200 ppm of sodium chemistry, and your UAO shows that, then you don't have to replace the head gaskets. shocked2
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Dispersant - Succinic ashless dispersants Cleaners - Ethoxylated alcohols AW - Polymer Esters, Ionic Liquids Friction Modifiers - ashless friction modifiers such as GMO and other fatty acids And any other chemistry that may be ashless.
Good list. Also add aminic and phenolic antioxidants, VIIs/PPDs, corrosion inhibitors and yellow metal passivators. Not to mention anything using a metallic (or other) element not looked for in the usual ICP-AES suite.
 

MolaKule

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Thanks Weasley for the additions. Let's list them for posterity sake: What additives DO NOT show up in uoa's Dispersant - Succinic ashless dispersants Cleaners such as Ethoxylated alcohols AW - Polymer Esters, Ionic Liquids Friction Modifiers - ashless friction modifiers such as GMO and other fatty acids aminic and phenolic antioxidants VIIs/PPDs corrosion inhibitors metal passivators Solvents (usually in very low percentages like 0.1%) And any other chemistry that may be ashless.
 
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