Were going back to Regular Diesel at work

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Just recently our fire department had issues with a Series 60 turning the fuel black....naturally our first thought was combustion soot from a bad injector fouling the fuel.....nope. This was another case of biodiesel eating away at a fuel line which in turn caused small particles from the fuel line to clog the flter (Davoc 382) and eventually cause low power.
 
Originally Posted By: Fleetmon
Just recently our fire department had issues with a Series 60 turning the fuel black....naturally our first thought was combustion soot from a bad injector fouling the fuel.....nope. This was another case of biodiesel eating away at a fuel line which in turn caused small particles from the fuel line to clog the flter (Davoc 382) and eventually cause low power.


Haven't seen that with my previous Cummins ISX or my current Series 60. Now, the Cummins would turn fuel black, but that was due to asphaltine, which is the fuel is getting "cooked' in the rail before returning to the tanks. That problem has been addressed by Cummins and other OEM's and now you can get products to add to the fuel to break down the carbon molecules that are bonding to create this stuff. Many confuse it with Algae growth. Two different things going on. But hey, since biodiesel is out there, lets just blame it instead. And never mind that the filter in the Davco can be changed when fuel reaches top of filter to eliminate power loss. Does anyone ever do any maintenance checks on this stuff or do they just shine up the trucks and drive them? That's the purpose of a Davco unit.... being able to see how full the filter is, seeing what contaminates are in there that it caught, and being able to easy change out the filter if needed.

I have been using various blends of biodiesel for over 6 years. In my Jeep Liberty Diesel, in my semi's, and my ag equipment. I have never had a fuel related problem.
 
Hey- I like biodiesel but it has its limitations in some applications....in THIS case a fuel line was disintegrating...saw it with my own eyes. It could have been a bad line to begin with but who knows and better yet, who's going to chance it....it a truckngoes down you might lose a load of lettuce or something, when an emergency response vehicle goes down you might lose people.

The firefighters were following proper maintenance and they reported it when it was noticed. A six-pack was replaced first then further diagnosis revealed a bad fuel line. I can guarantee these trucks are maintained better than most fire departments. As an aside, we also had a lot of trouble with the C18's in our snow equipment and biodiesel was to blame...mostly because the fuel went "stale".

Good for you that you haven't had any trouble....doesn't mean everyone will have your experiences.
 
If they spec the proper equipment, or are using something from 20 years ago, you would be correct that some will experience problems. But therein lies the problem most times... folks will spec things with the general mindset "that's the way we always did it". And it is common knowledge among commercial truck users, that fuel lines will become problematic after 5-7 years, irregardless of bio being used or not. This is why it is called PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE. You change some components based on typical life cycles and not just "when it breaks". Or in this case, when you fuel lines start falling apart. A proper check of fuel system occasionally would have revealed fuel line deterioration long before it was a major problem.

Proper maintenance is not just checking the oil level and seeing that the washer fluid in full and the tires are aired up. Changing things like crankshaft dampers, fuel lines, running overheads on diesels, and a host of other things constitute preventative maintenance. Waiting till major catastrophes occur is called Reactive Maintenance. And truth be told, that is how most maintenance occurs.
 
I call bull on changing fuel lines at 5-7 years.....that is not preventive maintenance but rather a case of using a product through the fuel line that is not compatible with the material. I've been a heavy duty diesel mechanic for over 40 years and have worked on many fleet vehicles and I can assure you that I have never seen nor heard of a fleet requiring fuel lines be changed at any interval. I have also attended many training classes for an assortment of diesel engines ranging from one-cylinder Deutz to EMD710's and I am (or was) a Detroit Diesel Guildsman and have worked on and was certified to work on every DD engine type ever built.....still don't recall any specific direction regarding fuel lines except when they failed.

We have some equipment that is over twenty years old with the same rubber products that were installed when new.

Biodiesel was mandated for use in several of our agencies but most of them burn enough fuel to rotate fresh fuel continually......snow equipment may or may not be used heavily from year to year and sometimes fuel may sit for a while....it was determined by Caterpillar and a local lab that the fuel had deteriorated to the point that it was actually acidic (for lack of a better term) and tabletop tests showed the fuel would dissolve samples of the fuel line used by the OEM.

No doubt the biodiesel we used was not up to par but we are also limited to whatever supplier provides fuel for all of the agencies involved....it's not like we could specify what/how we wanted our fuel. We instructed the diesel users in OUR agency to use #2 diesel exclusively and avoid fueling at sister agencies that dispensed both diesel and biodiesel.

However, with that said, certain types of our snow and emergency equipment are used at airports throughout the world and number in the thousands yet the vast majority of them have no issues....actually none that were polled had any issues related to ours.

I'm certainly not trying to start an arguement as to the use of biodiesel and if it works for you, great! It does not mean it will work for everyone and the fuel quality of biodiesel varys tremendously with most of the deficiencies being caused by the supplier.

Also, good for you for using Davco fuel filtration.....Davco is a great product and we specify all of our equipment with Davco filtration and we use their fuel scrubber in all of our equipment annually.
 
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Originally Posted By: AVB
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Ha! The problem is that you live in Lansing. We too (Lansing, Michigan) had variable results last winter with bio-fuel. Some companies had huge winter problems (trash haulers) while the guy down the street had none.

I've read that problems with the bio component, ultra low sulfer chemistry, and correct additive package are to blame.

Storing bio in an old gunked up regular diesel tank also loosens all the crud up...change them filters often.


I worked at the motor pool on a USMC installation for over 6 years. Biodesel was a mandate for us. I have never seen a fuel tank get gunked up by real diesel fuel. I have seen the build up that results from using biodiesel, we were contantly having to rebuild injector pumps and have tanks cleaned out. The more a truck was used the less problems we would have, but I have know idea where the idea that biodiesel cleans and breaks up old fuel system gunk from diesel. The gunk that biodiesel leaves behind is almost like tar. The only thing I have seen easily remove that stuff is canned carb cleaner. We have had trucks that have never had real diesel run in them have the same problems. So it is not biodiesel cleaning out the regular diesel gunk. It is biodiesel turning into gunk.



I know I am a little behind on quoting this, by like 18 months, but I could not agree more!! I am glad to see someone with real world knowledge finally step up and say something. I have always wondered where people think all of this gunk comes from. Extremely odd to me, but let them think it I guess.
 
Well, the time bio was coming on the scene, was also the time that ULSD was being mandated at the pumps. While bio does have its issues, ULSD also has brought some problems to the game. And some problems folks experience, the blame could be going to the wrong culprit.
 
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