People in intelligence community only use the term WMD to refer to nuclear weapons. Chemical and biological do not qualify. This is part of the basic misrepresentation that was carried out to justify the war in the first place.
Well, they are starting to find WMD in Iraq.
- Thread starter TooManyWheels
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Rich, so very rich.
Too many wheels or too many marbles?
I guess they aren't that bad then so we should have just let him play?
toomanywheels,
you are completely wrong. Sarin nerve IS a WMD, you just are a liberal and would rather have Bush be wrong that have the world be safer.
Edited to remove name calling, please refrain from personal attacks or name calling. Thanks
[ May 17, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
you are completely wrong. Sarin nerve IS a WMD, you just are a liberal and would rather have Bush be wrong that have the world be safer.
Edited to remove name calling, please refrain from personal attacks or name calling. Thanks
[ May 17, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
The Sarin Nerve Gas is on the Banned List of Weapons. This is the bomb that was exploded near the Marines outpost. Maybe not considered a WMD, but certainly not on the OK to hide list and then use at a later date.
I never heard anybody complain before about chemical weapons being called WMD. If they find hundreds or perhaps thousands of chemical rounds in Iraq do we then start calling them conventional rounds? Where do we draw the new line? When we find biological weapons? When we find nuclear weapons?
There are so many mountains of conventional weapons in Iraq that anything could be hidden among the artillery rounds, mortar rounds, etc. Since the rounds are unmarked the terrorists themselves may not have known what they had. It would have been incredibly easy to hide hundreds or perhaps even thousands of chemical artillery rounds and mortar and rocket rounds among the conventional rounds. One American general said that he had never in his life seen so many weapons as there is in Iraq. We may have to test each artillery round and each mortar round one by one. It will take years.
At any rate, THERE ARE CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN IRAQ. It is likely that there are more then just these two rounds. Saddam Hussein never accounted for some five hundred or so mustard gas rounds after the Gulf War and we now know that there are advanced binary agent sarin nerve gas rounds. Everybody who said that there were no chemical weapons in Iraq-SURPRISE!
And it becomes much more likely that WMD were transported to another country, such as Syria. A convoy of trucks was spotted going into Syria. And Syria is supporting the terrorists in Iraq. President Bush just recently imposed trade sanctions on Syria. And a Syrian newsman who escaped from Syria stated that Iraqi WMD are stored in three places in Syria. Since we now KNOW that there are chemical weapons in Iraq, does it become more possible that Iraqi chemical weapons are stored in Syria?
The terrorist who beheaded Berg was allowed to stay in Iraq while Saddam Hussein was still in power. And he was involved with the terrorists in northern Iraq who we know were working at least on ricin.
The pieces of a great puzzle are perhaps coming together at last.
There are so many mountains of conventional weapons in Iraq that anything could be hidden among the artillery rounds, mortar rounds, etc. Since the rounds are unmarked the terrorists themselves may not have known what they had. It would have been incredibly easy to hide hundreds or perhaps even thousands of chemical artillery rounds and mortar and rocket rounds among the conventional rounds. One American general said that he had never in his life seen so many weapons as there is in Iraq. We may have to test each artillery round and each mortar round one by one. It will take years.
At any rate, THERE ARE CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN IRAQ. It is likely that there are more then just these two rounds. Saddam Hussein never accounted for some five hundred or so mustard gas rounds after the Gulf War and we now know that there are advanced binary agent sarin nerve gas rounds. Everybody who said that there were no chemical weapons in Iraq-SURPRISE!
And it becomes much more likely that WMD were transported to another country, such as Syria. A convoy of trucks was spotted going into Syria. And Syria is supporting the terrorists in Iraq. President Bush just recently imposed trade sanctions on Syria. And a Syrian newsman who escaped from Syria stated that Iraqi WMD are stored in three places in Syria. Since we now KNOW that there are chemical weapons in Iraq, does it become more possible that Iraqi chemical weapons are stored in Syria?
The terrorist who beheaded Berg was allowed to stay in Iraq while Saddam Hussein was still in power. And he was involved with the terrorists in northern Iraq who we know were working at least on ricin.
The pieces of a great puzzle are perhaps coming together at last.
MolaKule
Staff member
WMD's are any weapons that can cause mass destruction of Property or LIVES. They can be nuclear or biological or conventional.
I am a nuclear engineer by training and WMD's and nuclear weapons are NOT the only devices or weapons to be considered under the WMD category.
Large and high yield conventional weapons can also be considered WMD's. Scuds are considered WMD's and they don't have to be nuclear.
So whose intelligence community have you been privy to, Michael Moore's?
Just one more point. If there are in fact hundreds or perhaps thousands of chemical weapons in Iraq, and perhaps biological weapons, we now have more reason to be in Iraq then ever before. Would anybody really want for terrorists to get hold of these weapons (they already have) and explode them in American cities?
Oh, I am sorry, I forgot. Liberals and diehard Bush haters don't think in those terms. The important think is to get Bush out of the White House at any cost. We can worry about the chemical weapons and biological weapons and the dirty bombs after the great leader Kerry has obtained power.
Well, I think I am more liberal then the so-called liberals. And I am voting for Bush.
Oh, I am sorry, I forgot. Liberals and diehard Bush haters don't think in those terms. The important think is to get Bush out of the White House at any cost. We can worry about the chemical weapons and biological weapons and the dirty bombs after the great leader Kerry has obtained power.
Well, I think I am more liberal then the so-called liberals. And I am voting for Bush.
Mystic:
If you will do the most basic research you will find that chemical weapons are so tricky to work with as to be impractical, and furthermore they have an extremely short shelf life. If you haven't heard anyone surface this argument before you haven't been paying attention.
Biological agents might, that is MIGHT, be a different story, but none of those have been found. For that matter, the only things indicated about the one (one, not thousands of) sarin weapon are that it wasn't harmful (short shelf life), and that it was of a type used by Iraq (where else it might have come from has not beeen addressed).
You are making huge logical leaps and generalizations on the flimsiest of evidence. And your side accuses my side of hysteria!
[ May 17, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]
If you will do the most basic research you will find that chemical weapons are so tricky to work with as to be impractical, and furthermore they have an extremely short shelf life. If you haven't heard anyone surface this argument before you haven't been paying attention.
Biological agents might, that is MIGHT, be a different story, but none of those have been found. For that matter, the only things indicated about the one (one, not thousands of) sarin weapon are that it wasn't harmful (short shelf life), and that it was of a type used by Iraq (where else it might have come from has not beeen addressed).
You are making huge logical leaps and generalizations on the flimsiest of evidence. And your side accuses my side of hysteria!
[ May 17, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: TooManyWheels ]
You're the same guy that accused me of thinking board members are ignorants because of my argument on another thread. What exactly do YOU think board members are with this kind of bogus and completely self serving description of WMD? It is worse than Clinton and the meaning of "is".
You know, TooManyWheels, I don't claim to be an expert like you apparently are. But chemical weapons in artillery rounds, rocket rounds, mortar rounds, etc., are very easy to use on the battlefield. We have the example of World War I. We have the example of Saddam Hussein using chemical weapons against the Iranians and also against his own people. Sarin binary chemical nerve agent can easily be put into an artillery round. It is not too dangerous until the round is fired. The binary agents are combined after the artillery round is exploded. I am no expert but I have received training in chemical and biological weapons. And near where I live is the Pueblo Depot Activity, where a great many mustard rounds are stored until the experts decide the best way to destroy these rounds. They are still dangerous after all those years. If as you say sarin and other chemical weapons have a very limited self life, then things are even worse because if that sarin nerve agent round had been properly used and the binary agents combined, it would have released nerve agent. If the shelf life is so limited then the sarin would have to have been produced recently.
I know you are upset. President Bush said that there were dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq and we had to deal with the dangerous Saddam Hussein. Now we have proof that indeed there are chemical weapons in Iraq. These two rounds very likely are only the tip of the iceberg. But we must deal with reality and the reality is that there are dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq. Bush was right. AND THOSE CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE FALLING INTO THE HANDS OF THE TERRORISTS AS WE WRITE. Reason enough to be in Iraq and try to prevent such weapons being used against American cities. No matter how much somebody hates President Bush, does anybody really want for the chemical weapons in Iraq to be used against America?
Let us be willing to give President Bush credit. He was right. There were and are chemical weapons in Iraq. If Kerry becomes president and he is honest, he will have to say the same thing.
Leave politics out of this. We are facing a very dangerous time. After World War I nobody in their right mind wanted for chemical weapons to ever be used again.
Did you see the video of Berg being beheaded? These people will use any weapon they have against us. They hate us and they want to destroy us.
I know you are upset. President Bush said that there were dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq and we had to deal with the dangerous Saddam Hussein. Now we have proof that indeed there are chemical weapons in Iraq. These two rounds very likely are only the tip of the iceberg. But we must deal with reality and the reality is that there are dangerous chemical weapons in Iraq. Bush was right. AND THOSE CHEMICAL WEAPONS ARE FALLING INTO THE HANDS OF THE TERRORISTS AS WE WRITE. Reason enough to be in Iraq and try to prevent such weapons being used against American cities. No matter how much somebody hates President Bush, does anybody really want for the chemical weapons in Iraq to be used against America?
Let us be willing to give President Bush credit. He was right. There were and are chemical weapons in Iraq. If Kerry becomes president and he is honest, he will have to say the same thing.
Leave politics out of this. We are facing a very dangerous time. After World War I nobody in their right mind wanted for chemical weapons to ever be used again.
Did you see the video of Berg being beheaded? These people will use any weapon they have against us. They hate us and they want to destroy us.
I agree that this is not exactly the holy grail and to give the invasion a freebie on that basis. But now that they have found sarin to start arguing that sarin is not even a dangerous and prohibited weapon is ridiculous. By extension of that argument if they had found an operational sarin lab still chugging away into 55gal drums it would still have been irrelevant. The main justification to me is that Sadman could have ramped up to produce this stuff again very quickly even if he didn't have huge stocks of it before the war. And he didn't seem too apologetic about it. Remember the daily attempts to shoot down US planes? It is not like you need the kind of lead time you needed to build battleships, which is one of the main reasons Germany really didn't have much of a navy in WW2. I just get this picture from liberals that they think Saddam was a kindly, elderly corner grocer brutally attacked in his shop by the evil US mafia.
TooManyWheels, people solved the problem of unstable chemical weapons. A binary weapon is not especially dangerous until the warhead it is in is exploded. The binary agents combine to form nerve agent. They already solved the problems years ago. And sorry, I live near a military facility where chemical agents are stored. I KNOW that the mustard gas rounds stored there are still dangerous-dangerous after many years. You have no idea of the safeguards they have around the igloos where these things are stored. I am not an expert, but i have had training in chemical and biological agents. Maybe you have a MS or PhD in chemistry and maybe you are an expert in these weapons. I don't know. But I DO KNOW that the old mustard gas rounds not far from where I live are still dangerous.
Maybe the reason Saddam Hussein did not use chemical weapons in the war was because they had been so intent on hiding the weapons among the mountains of conventional stuff that it would have taken too long to get the stuff ready. And this just shows you how incredibly DANGEROUS these people were (and are). Nobody in their right mind stores these kinds of lethal chemical weapons with conventional weapons. The chemical round apparently do not even have special markings. That is insane. And the war went quickly and the people who HAD to know where this stuff was stored may have been killed or may have been not inclined to get the chemical stuff gathered up and ready to go. And maybe when weapons depots were being hit by American airpower not too many people with any real common sense were eager to enter the weapon storage areas.
The really 'good' stuff may have been shipped to Syria. Only two round found so far but who really wants to bet they will not find more rounds in the mountains of trash in the time to come? And it may be very hard to find that stuff. All you really need is a few hundred rounds of sarin. Now stick those few hundred rounds among thousands upon thousands of conventional rounds. And no special markings on the chemical weapons-pure insanity. Insanity!
The really 'good' stuff may have been shipped to Syria. Only two round found so far but who really wants to bet they will not find more rounds in the mountains of trash in the time to come? And it may be very hard to find that stuff. All you really need is a few hundred rounds of sarin. Now stick those few hundred rounds among thousands upon thousands of conventional rounds. And no special markings on the chemical weapons-pure insanity. Insanity!
Originally posted by TooManyWheels:
[QB] Mystic:
If you will do the most basic research you will find that chemical weapons are so tricky to work with as to be impractical, and furthermore they have an extremely short shelf life. If you haven't heard anyone surface this argument before you haven't been paying attention.
I too live not far from a chemical weapons depot,they are EXTREMELY dangerous even after all of these years.For anyone to think otherwise is to not have a true knowledge of them.These weapons leak and have to be dealt with quite often.Where I live the depot has to report any agent that leaks from a round.That round must be placed in a sealed air tight cylinder to keep it from causeing any danger to people.These weapons are as I said extremely dangerous.Some nerve agants can kill thousands with just a small drop of the agent.
Lets not forget all the so called Pesticides that have been found in bunkers and ammo depo's. THe media would rather play people for fools. Pestcidies are the first step in makeing chemical weapons. Their have been plenty of reporters and soldier that have suffered sever symptoms after finding so called "pesticides in an ammo depo. Usualy pesticides are not stored in ammo depo's! It is rather simple to concenterate the pesticides to create workable nerve agents. Seeing how their is little argiculture in Iraq and even less around military bases I find it almost funny that these organo phosphate pesticides have been repeatedly down played as pesticides.
Yea, I read on another website that they indeed found WMD's in iraq.
But in this case, it stands for Women Mistreating Detainees!!!
But in this case, it stands for Women Mistreating Detainees!!!
What are the chances that the terrorists just happened to pick out the only two chemical artillery rounds in the mountains of ammo in Iraq to use as two of their roadside bombs? We are talking about unmarked chemical rounds, remember (which is pure insanity). There are almost certainly more chemical rounds somewhere in the mountain of trash. And there may be people in Iraq somewhere who could tell the terrorists where to locate the chemical stuff. If the terrorists would have known how to use that sarin gas round they could have killed a great many people. And the really 'good' stuff was probably moved somewhere else, where states that support terrorism can make it available to the terrorists. So that they can hide behind the terrorists and let the terrorists do their dirty work for them.
This is a time of great danger. These terrible weapons must never be used against the human race ever again. Any sane human being regardless of religious beliefs should be willing to agree with this. Unless your God is the dark God. Conventional weapons are bad enough.
Anybody who says that this stuff has a limited shelf life reveals their lack of knowledge. Some of the stuff at the PDA probably dates back to World War I. It is very dangerous.
Now that the terrorists know that the chemical weapons are there, they will start to look for the stuff. Somewhere in Iraq are people who may know the location of these weapons or who may have the knowledge to work with them.
Now is not the time for some sort of silly politics and we don't have time to engage in the hatred of any particular political figure. Regardless who the president is, he/she must do things to defend the country. The FIRST TIME one of these chemical or biological or dirty bombs is exploded in the United States, you will understand.
This is a time of great danger. These terrible weapons must never be used against the human race ever again. Any sane human being regardless of religious beliefs should be willing to agree with this. Unless your God is the dark God. Conventional weapons are bad enough.
Anybody who says that this stuff has a limited shelf life reveals their lack of knowledge. Some of the stuff at the PDA probably dates back to World War I. It is very dangerous.
Now that the terrorists know that the chemical weapons are there, they will start to look for the stuff. Somewhere in Iraq are people who may know the location of these weapons or who may have the knowledge to work with them.
Now is not the time for some sort of silly politics and we don't have time to engage in the hatred of any particular political figure. Regardless who the president is, he/she must do things to defend the country. The FIRST TIME one of these chemical or biological or dirty bombs is exploded in the United States, you will understand.
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