Weekend in EV skiing

[andrew_j]

I went up with friend to VT to ski at their place this weekend in their BMW i4.

The car normally has about a 300 mile range and we made it up to house (210 miles each way) fine. It was -15f when we arrived. Plugged in EV and it charged fine overnight outside with temp dropping to -25f temperature. It charged up okay overnight however we obviously bailed skiing as windchills showing -40f and did some drinks instead. The car drove fine in extreme weather but showed 40% drop in range.

Woke up today with 40f temp swing back to start in 20s and ski and the range was back to normal . (Car not charged)

EVs work in extreme cold.

 

[terry274]

Thank you for a real world report of an electric vehicle in very cold weather. So much better than the "what if" scenarios often presented.

 

[The Critic]

Sounds like your friend had Level 2 charging (32A or higher) at their vacation house. This is the ideal scenario for overnight charging on a smaller EV. If you had been traveling and were stuck with only Level 1 (12A), this would have been a disaster since EV's are less efficient to charge in the cold due to pre-conditioning activities.

 

[Astro14]

I went up with friend to VT to ski at their place this weekend in their BMW i4.

The car normally has about a 300 mile range and we made it up to house (210 miles each way) fine. It was -15f when we arrived. Plugged in EV and it charged fine overnight outside with temp dropping to -25f temperature. It charged up okay overnight however we obviously bailed skiing as windchills showing -40f and did some drinks instead. The car drove fine in extreme weather but showed 40% drop in range.

Woke up today with 40f temp swing back to start in 20s and ski and the range was back to normal . (Car not charged)

EVs work in extreme cold.

I don’t anyone was questioning if EVs would function.

The range degradation is the issue.

Your observed 40% range reduction was before the heater had been run - range estimate would likely continue to drop as the car was operated with full heat. That’s what people have reported.

That is a critical issue - can the range estimate be trusted when the heater is going full blast?

 

[UncleDave]

Sounds like your friend had Level 2 charging (32A or higher) at their vacation house. This is the ideal scenario for overnight charging on a smaller EV. If you had been traveling and were stuck with only Level 1 (12A), this would have been a disaster since EV's are less efficient to charge in the cold due to pre-conditioning activities.

If you plug into level 1 right away while the battery is still warm from the drive you are also Ok
Its when you let the thing go stone cold then plug in - level 1 is a long haul.
50/32 amps is golden.

 

[andrew_j]

Level 2 sometimes on his winter rental. He usually is stuck with level 1 as owner(from QC) stays at in-law apt there had L2 plug for themself.

The 40% reduction was observed when we got into warm car he remote “started”. It improved as car was driven despite the inane weather.

 

[The Critic]

I don’t anyone was questioning if EVs would function.

The range degradation is the issue.

Your observed 40% range reduction was before the heater had been run - range estimate would likely continue to drop as the car was operated with full heat. That’s what people have reported.

That is a critical issue - can the range estimate be trusted when the heater is going full blast?

Exactly. From the reports I have seen, it seems like a 50% reduction in range is probably a realistic estimate.

Since most people only use their EV's from 10-90% of their SOC range, assuming 40% of the advertised range is probably a good ballpark of what to expect during the winter months.

 

[Torrid]

It's a huge benefit being able to plug in with extremely low temperatures. It will eventually charge, but there's sometimes a decent amount of time used to warm the batteries first. When it is extremely cold here I just plug the car in anyway to not allow the battery to get as cold. Basically if it's under 15 degrees overnight here I plug it in.

Not so much cold weather, but in snowy, slick conditions I find the Model 3 even only being RWD to be a lot more surefooted than my GTI, likely due to weight and not having a less linear turbo engine.

 

[OVERKILL]

I went up with friend to VT to ski at their place this weekend in their BMW i4.

The car normally has about a 300 mile range and we made it up to house (210 miles each way) fine. It was -15f when we arrived. Plugged in EV and it charged fine overnight outside with temp dropping to -25f temperature. It charged up okay overnight however we obviously bailed skiing as windchills showing -40f and did some drinks instead. The car drove fine in extreme weather but showed 40% drop in range.

Woke up today with 40f temp swing back to start in 20s and ski and the range was back to normal . (Car not charged)

EVs work in extreme cold.

i4 eDrive40 or M50? What did you think of it?

 

[leadcounsel]

I went up with friend to VT to ski at their place this weekend in their BMW i4.

The car normally has about a 300 mile range and we made it up to house (210 miles each way) fine. It was -15f when we arrived. Plugged in EV and it charged fine overnight outside with temp dropping to -25f temperature. It charged up okay overnight however we obviously bailed skiing as windchills showing -40f and did some drinks instead. The car drove fine in extreme weather but showed 40% drop in range.

Woke up today with 40f temp swing back to start in 20s and ski and the range was back to normal . (Car not charged)

EVs work in extreme cold.

Excellent report on how the upper 5% live. Vacation ski house. BMW EV.

But, what if overnight you lost power like 1,000,000 in Texas or other parts of the nation and woke up with a nearly dead battery? Did you have a backup plan, based on a 40% cold weather drop in range leaving you with a close to zero realistic mile charge (probably closer to zero in the cold at that point.)?

Also, how does this related to the rest of Americans? People without ski lodge resort condos and BMW incomes?

real world report of an electric vehicle in very cold weather.

Ski lodges and BMW EVs are "real world?" I suppose if we're really expanding the definitions. That's a snow globe. See, this is what I don't get on the EV push. The elite thinking these can work for everyone, and "thru laws and pressures" pushing this obscure tech on the rest of us.

I have some very wealthy friends who have ski resort homes. They do not really consider themselves "normal situations" and they all have gasoline vehicles b/c ... well we all know why. Fuel reliability, availably, power losses, cost ratios, etc. The least practical vehicle, next to a steam powered engine made in 1907, in the cold mountains is a EV that relies on electricity and loses 50% of its power when it's cold. In the mountains during the winter you can bank on cold and loss of electricity in storms. It's why people often have alternate heat sources like wood stoves. A gasoline SUV loses no power when it's cold, FYI. And gasoline is instantly availably in any town in America on demand. And transportable in canisters.

 

[edyvw]

Our very good friends have Tesla Model 3. Last winter they came to our house and parked outside. They had around 50%. I told him to hook up on outlet, he said he will be fine (30min drive back home).
During night drops to 10f, we get up, Tesla is at 17%.
Now go find supercharger, charge enough to get home , and then some in case of issues on the road. 30min turned to 2hrs.
When we go to ski, he just uses their Honda Pilot although he just takes his son to ski with my son. But, Tesla is not practical proposition, at all.

 

[demarpaint]

Our very good friends have Tesla Model 3. Last winter they came to our house and parked outside. They had around 50%. I told him to hook up on outlet, he said he will be fine (30min drive back home).
During night drops to 10f, we get up, Tesla is at 17%.
Now go find supercharger, charge enough to get home , and then some in case of issues on the road. 30min turned to 2hrs.
When we go to ski, he just uses their Honda Pilot although he just takes his son to ski with my son. But, Tesla is not practical proposition, at all.

There's a learning curve it appears and a lot more thought that goes into making trips with an EV than an ICE vehicle. That's what I gather from this.

 

[andrew_j]

Excellent report on how the upper 5% live. Vacation ski house. BMW EV.

But, what if overnight you lost power like 1,000,000 in Texas or other parts of the nation and woke up with a nearly dead battery? Did you have a backup plan, based on a 40% cold weather drop in range leaving you with a close to zero realistic mile charge (probably closer to zero in the cold at that point.)?

Also, how does this related to the rest of Americans? People without ski lodge resort condos and BMW incomes?


Ski lodges and BMW EVs are "real world?" I suppose if we're really expanding the definitions. That's a snow globe. See, this is what I don't get on the EV push. The elite thinking these can work for everyone, and "thru laws and pressures" pushing this obscure tech on the rest of us.

I have some very wealthy friends who have ski resort homes. They do not really consider themselves "normal situations" and they all have gasoline vehicles b/c ... well we all know why. Fuel reliability, availably, power losses, cost ratios, etc. The least practical vehicle, next to a steam powered engine made in 1907, in the cold mountains is a EV that relies on electricity and loses 50% of its power when it's cold. In the mountains during the winter you can bank on cold and loss of electricity in storms. It's why people often have alternate heat sources like wood stoves. A gasoline SUV loses no power when it's cold, FYI. And gasoline is instantly availably in any town in America on demand. And transportable in canisters.

The backup plan was if we lose power likely would be wait a day and work remotely. The home has an automatic propane powered backup generator to power basics like the monitor heater, fridge, internet and a level 1 charge apparently.

The case I demonstrated was EV seem to run around fine in extreme cold. I noticed a few around especially from Quebec where massive push has happened so lots of charge options near border.

I did notice hoods up only on ICE vehicles on the -20f morning . ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

I would not bring TX into conversation because it’s one of the worst state for amount of power outages and managing their own grid.

 

[edyvw]

The backup plan was if we lose power likely would be wait a day and work remotely. The home has an automatic propane powered backup generator to power basics like the monitor heater, fridge, internet and a level 1 charge apparently.

The case I demonstrated was EV seem to run around fine in extreme cold. I noticed a few around especially from Quebec where massive push has happened so lots of charge options near border.

I did notice hoods up only on ICE vehicles on the -20f morning . ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Of course you will notice hoods up on ICE:
1. There are many more on roads. Much more chance of having issues.
2. If EV dies in cold, is one going to raise “hood” to jump start?

 

[Snagglefoot]

I’d say that was good report and the first one I saw at -24 F. Thanks for the post.

Although they say wind chill is only valid for people and animals, I think it is somewhat valid for an EV because while the car is underway, if the batteries are mounted along the low side of the car, the rate of heat loss will be increased with higher wing chill numbers.

 

[dadto2]

Excellent report on how the upper 5% live. Vacation ski house. BMW EV.

But, what if overnight you lost power like 1,000,000 in Texas or other parts of the nation and woke up with a nearly dead battery? Did you have a backup plan, based on a 40% cold weather drop in range leaving you with a close to zero realistic mile charge (probably closer to zero in the cold at that point.)?

Also, how does this related to the rest of Americans? People without ski lodge resort condos and BMW incomes?


Ski lodges and BMW EVs are "real world?" I suppose if we're really expanding the definitions. That's a snow globe. See, this is what I don't get on the EV push. The elite thinking these can work for everyone, and "thru laws and pressures" pushing this obscure tech on the rest of us.

I have some very wealthy friends who have ski resort homes. They do not really consider themselves "normal situations" and they all have gasoline vehicles b/c ... well we all know why. Fuel reliability, availably, power losses, cost ratios, etc. The least practical vehicle, next to a steam powered engine made in 1907, in the cold mountains is a EV that relies on electricity and loses 50% of its power when it's cold. In the mountains during the winter you can bank on cold and loss of electricity in storms. It's why people often have alternate heat sources like wood stoves. A gasoline SUV loses no power when it's cold, FYI. And gasoline is instantly availably in any town in America on demand. And transportable in canisters.

That is real EV world in 2023. And yes, my gasoline powered truck loses range in the cold, though certainly not 40%.
Just because EVs aren't perfect for every scenario all the time today doesn't mean we shouldn't incentivize it's adoption.

 

[edyvw]

That is real EV world in 2023. And yes, my gasoline powered truck loses range in the cold, though certainly not 40%.
Just because EVs aren't perfect for every scenario all the time today doesn't mean we shouldn't incentivize it's adoption.

So, I ski exclusively at local ski place that doesn’t have hotels etc. Has few bars, that is it.
It is extremely popular place and 95% of people will drive from front range to ski, go back in afternoon.
How do you charge all those vehicles? It is brutal climate, base is above 10,000ft, and currently has 2-3 chargers and I see 1-2 cars at most parked there.
But, the question is: we all have EV, and we all have to recharge to go back? And how many other ski places will have same challenge?

 

[alarmguy]

That is real EV world in 2023. And yes, my gasoline powered truck loses range in the cold, though certainly not 40%.
Just because EVs aren't perfect for every scenario all the time today doesn't mean we shouldn't incentivize it's adoption.

Thats the only part that bothers me. Why are we incentivizing its adoption? Why cant people be left alone to make their own decisions? Are we not adults? We need to be forced or bribed?
I think that is the only side that some do not see. I dont think anyone is against EVs. I certainly am not though it will be long time before I own one. The technology is in its infancy and in present form will never be able to take the place of the ICE for a majority of the population.

 

[Trav]

How about making the third world electric grid needed to power these vehicles is up to snuff before incentivizing people to buy them.

 

[andrew_j]

So, I ski exclusively at local ski place that doesn’t have hotels etc. Has few bars, that is it.
It is extremely popular place and 95% of people will drive from front range to ski, go back in afternoon.
How do you charge all those vehicles? It is brutal climate, base is above 10,000ft, and currently has 2-3 chargers and I see 1-2 cars at most parked there.
But, the question is: we all have EV, and we all have to recharge to go back? And how many other ski places will have same challenge?

That is a what if and not reality. Charging tech/prevalence and range will increase over time as adoption rate continues. Might be some bumps and it will get sorted if the direction.

Friend did not buy car , it’s his company car and beats his F150 STX (base model) in comfort and in this case fueling costs .