Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Torino said:
Weber Carbs..advantages? disadvantages? Cost?
- Thread starter RandomInThe707
- Start date
- Status
Jet performance has one of the best quadrajet rebuilds out there.
x2 on it being a great design, IF you know how to set it up.
x2 on it being a great design, IF you know how to set it up.
I think Weber was making the new Edelbrock carburetors. Weber bought Carter and Carter had made Q-jets at times for GM when Rochester couldn't supply enough. I don't know the exact story but somehow Weber, Carter and Edelbrock were all involved and Edelbrock has all of the Carter stuff.
The Q-jets are a good carb. They have precise fuel control allowing good fuel mileage and for them to have been used with few changes through the emissions era into the mid-80's and even until '90 on some applications. Although the cars got feedback control around '81. the Pick up Q-jets didn't have feedback even in the mid 80's. Q-jets are also good for off road because they have good fuel bowl control. With the spreadbore small primaries and huge vaccuum operated secondaries they can work on emgines from 3.8 up to the big block.
With a carb it's all in the tuning. With a broadband O2 sensor logging and knowing what jet sizes, metering rods, airbleed size etc needed they can be really dialed in. A lot of the fancy expensive, high performance carbs are more tunable but out of the box they are usually way off. I think the Q-jet and the Carter/Edelborck carbs are better street carbs than Holley. They just didn't get the attention Holleys did.
The Q-jets are a good carb. They have precise fuel control allowing good fuel mileage and for them to have been used with few changes through the emissions era into the mid-80's and even until '90 on some applications. Although the cars got feedback control around '81. the Pick up Q-jets didn't have feedback even in the mid 80's. Q-jets are also good for off road because they have good fuel bowl control. With the spreadbore small primaries and huge vaccuum operated secondaries they can work on emgines from 3.8 up to the big block.
With a carb it's all in the tuning. With a broadband O2 sensor logging and knowing what jet sizes, metering rods, airbleed size etc needed they can be really dialed in. A lot of the fancy expensive, high performance carbs are more tunable but out of the box they are usually way off. I think the Q-jet and the Carter/Edelborck carbs are better street carbs than Holley. They just didn't get the attention Holleys did.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I'm a big fan of Holley carbs. But you do need to know what you are doing to set them up right.
Mine is not a "street" carb, given that it has an HP main-body. No choke, or any of that potential air-restricting stuff
Setup with a wideband is the only way to go. You can get a good series of datalogs to make the carb PERFECT.
Mine is not a "street" carb, given that it has an HP main-body. No choke, or any of that potential air-restricting stuff
Setup with a wideband is the only way to go. You can get a good series of datalogs to make the carb PERFECT.
The Holley definitely is good for radical engines and racing. I prefer the Holley manufactured ones to the tuner clones. With a wideband logger and actually tuning the jets for cruise and the PVCR for power and the air bleeds Holleys can have a very good fuel curve and good gas mileage. OEM Holleys back in the muscle car days were tuned by the OEM and worked well for street cars.
Thanks for all the replies. Interesting reading.
To answer the questions...
-Application would be either for a Toyota pick-up or Tercel. Basically I am interested in whether MPG, power, and general running of the engine can be improved. But, I'd be hesitant to do it if there were negative effects such as increased engine wear.
- Not all of California requires smog at registration. Here is a list of counties that do from the DMV. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2539
Areas not listed don't. There's also a zip code locator. I've had my vehicles registered in an area in which I have only needed to smog for change of ownership. After that, no smog is required.
To answer the questions...
-Application would be either for a Toyota pick-up or Tercel. Basically I am interested in whether MPG, power, and general running of the engine can be improved. But, I'd be hesitant to do it if there were negative effects such as increased engine wear.
- Not all of California requires smog at registration. Here is a list of counties that do from the DMV. http://www.dmv.ca.gov/vr/smogfaq.htm#BM2539
Areas not listed don't. There's also a zip code locator. I've had my vehicles registered in an area in which I have only needed to smog for change of ownership. After that, no smog is required.
Last edited:
You could probably find a Holley-Weber 5200 cheaper, which is basically the same as the Weber 32/36 progressive.
What year/engine pickup? Even in the 1980's Fuel injection was available, you should be able to get the injection components from a 22re for a song, to replace the Carb on a 22r. if that's what you have.
You'll possibly get more power AND better MPG.
I'm not sure you will gain much from a progressive twin choke Weber over the stock Carb.
Single or Twin DCOE Weber 'can' give better top end performance, IF set up properly (figure on rolling road dyno time) But I would not expect any positive changes in fuel economy.
You may get a bigger Bang for your Buck with a Header.
Anyone remember Fish carburettors? they always fascinated me.
You'll possibly get more power AND better MPG.
I'm not sure you will gain much from a progressive twin choke Weber over the stock Carb.
Single or Twin DCOE Weber 'can' give better top end performance, IF set up properly (figure on rolling road dyno time) But I would not expect any positive changes in fuel economy.
You may get a bigger Bang for your Buck with a Header.
Anyone remember Fish carburettors? they always fascinated me.
Even the carbureted Toyota pickups ran good. Putting a Weber on it isn't going to increase mileage and probably won't increase power much (all else being equal) so you would be better off keeping it stock. What year Turdcel were you thinking? If it is one of those with the variable venturi carburetors (circa 1988?) you may be able to get good mileage with it, properly built. The original carb is absolute junk and never ran right straight from the factory. I don't think the weber will gain you either power or mileage but I'm sure it would have better driveability than with that [censored] variable venturi. I'm not sure what carb would be the best in that application but it probably wouldn't be a weber unless it was a really small weber. The 1.5 liter engine doesn't consume much air so for good low speed driveability you would want something small.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Even the carbureted Toyota pickups ran good. Putting a Weber on it isn't going to increase mileage and probably won't increase power much (all else being equal) so you would be better off keeping it stock. What year Turdcel were you thinking? If it is one of those with the variable venturi carburetors (circa 1988?) you may be able to get good mileage with it, properly built. The original carb is absolute junk and never ran right straight from the factory. I don't think the weber will gain you either power or mileage but I'm sure it would have better driveability than with that [censored] variable venturi. I'm not sure what carb would be the best in that application but it probably wouldn't be a weber unless it was a really small weber. The 1.5 liter engine doesn't consume much air so for good low speed driveability you would want something small.
A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!
Even the carbureted Toyota pickups ran good. Putting a Weber on it isn't going to increase mileage and probably won't increase power much (all else being equal) so you would be better off keeping it stock. What year Turdcel were you thinking? If it is one of those with the variable venturi carburetors (circa 1988?) you may be able to get good mileage with it, properly built. The original carb is absolute junk and never ran right straight from the factory. I don't think the weber will gain you either power or mileage but I'm sure it would have better driveability than with that [censored] variable venturi. I'm not sure what carb would be the best in that application but it probably wouldn't be a weber unless it was a really small weber. The 1.5 liter engine doesn't consume much air so for good low speed driveability you would want something small.
A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!
Originally Posted By: expat
"A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!"
No laughing matter, Mikuni's in Twin or Quad can give very good results on a car engine. The driveability is better if you get a set fitted with an acceleration pump.
What carbs don't have an accelerator pump?
"A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!"
No laughing matter, Mikuni's in Twin or Quad can give very good results on a car engine. The driveability is better if you get a set fitted with an acceleration pump.
What carbs don't have an accelerator pump?
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Originally Posted By: expat
"A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!"
No laughing matter, Mikuni's in Twin or Quad can give very good results on a car engine. The driveability is better if you get a set fitted with an acceleration pump.
What carbs don't have an accelerator pump?
I thought you worked in a Carburetor shop?
Would you like a list?
Originally Posted By: expat
"A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!"
No laughing matter, Mikuni's in Twin or Quad can give very good results on a car engine. The driveability is better if you get a set fitted with an acceleration pump.
What carbs don't have an accelerator pump?
I thought you worked in a Carburetor shop?
Would you like a list?
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't know the exact story but somehow Weber, Carter and Edelbrock were all involved and Edelbrock has all of the Carter stuff.
Federal-Mogul was the common thread. They owned both Carter and Weber for a while, and then it all passed to Edelbrock.
The Edelbrock Performer is a Carter AFB. The Edelbrock Thunder Series is a Carter AVS (and IMO the best all-around street/strip carb there is for stock to mildly enhanced muscle car engines). Never did know who built the Q-jet for Edelbrock while they sold it. I just remember how strange it was to pop the hood on a brand new 3/4-ton Dodge pickup between 1984 and 1988 and see a Rochester Quadrajet sitting on top of the 360. Carter had pulled the plug on the Thermoquad, and the Q-jet was the simplest, most direct replacement.
I don't know the exact story but somehow Weber, Carter and Edelbrock were all involved and Edelbrock has all of the Carter stuff.
Federal-Mogul was the common thread. They owned both Carter and Weber for a while, and then it all passed to Edelbrock.
The Edelbrock Performer is a Carter AFB. The Edelbrock Thunder Series is a Carter AVS (and IMO the best all-around street/strip carb there is for stock to mildly enhanced muscle car engines). Never did know who built the Q-jet for Edelbrock while they sold it. I just remember how strange it was to pop the hood on a brand new 3/4-ton Dodge pickup between 1984 and 1988 and see a Rochester Quadrajet sitting on top of the 360. Carter had pulled the plug on the Thermoquad, and the Q-jet was the simplest, most direct replacement.
Originally Posted By: expat
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Originally Posted By: expat
"A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!"
No laughing matter, Mikuni's in Twin or Quad can give very good results on a car engine. The driveability is better if you get a set fitted with an acceleration pump.
What carbs don't have an accelerator pump?
I thought you worked in a Carburetor shop?
Would you like a list?
Sure, I'd love a list ;-). I meant carbs for cars. Engines that run at a steady rpm are a different story.
Originally Posted By: Scott_Tucker
Originally Posted By: expat
"A motorcycle Mikuni, LOL!"
No laughing matter, Mikuni's in Twin or Quad can give very good results on a car engine. The driveability is better if you get a set fitted with an acceleration pump.
What carbs don't have an accelerator pump?
I thought you worked in a Carburetor shop?
Would you like a list?
Sure, I'd love a list ;-). I meant carbs for cars. Engines that run at a steady rpm are a different story.
"Sure, I'd love a list ;-). I meant carbs for cars. Engines that run at a steady rpm are a different story."
Well to be fare, we were talking about Bike Carbs like Mikuni, Keihin, Amal, Suzuki and Bing. many or most of these do not have acceleration pumps, although I has seen some that have been fitted with external pumps in specific applications.
For Carbs for 'Cars'... Well, you seem to be familiar with the deficiencies of the SU carburetor. none of these in the popular H, HS or HIF range have acceleration pumps although some bespoke large Carbs for Rolls Royce did.
Zenith Stromberg CD Carbs do not have them in any size or model, neither does any of the Hitachi constant depression carbs that I know of.
The Solex semi downdraft carb was notorious for not using one, and if I were to search pre-war and late 1940's I'm sure I'd find many more.
What do you work on?
Well to be fare, we were talking about Bike Carbs like Mikuni, Keihin, Amal, Suzuki and Bing. many or most of these do not have acceleration pumps, although I has seen some that have been fitted with external pumps in specific applications.
For Carbs for 'Cars'... Well, you seem to be familiar with the deficiencies of the SU carburetor. none of these in the popular H, HS or HIF range have acceleration pumps although some bespoke large Carbs for Rolls Royce did.
Zenith Stromberg CD Carbs do not have them in any size or model, neither does any of the Hitachi constant depression carbs that I know of.
The Solex semi downdraft carb was notorious for not using one, and if I were to search pre-war and late 1940's I'm sure I'd find many more.
What do you work on?
Originally Posted By: expat
neither does any of the Hitachi constant depression carbs that I know of.
No pumps on the hitachis on my virago. Usually blipping the throttle on a stone cold engine helps, on this, the lean burp before the sliding needle whatzamajiggers react almost stalls it. Some people have, horror of horrors, torn both carbs out and put a single, pumper harley carb on with a custom manifold.
I can find a fair amount more to complain about on these carbs, but I'd have to find some non-E10 gas to test my assumptions first.
neither does any of the Hitachi constant depression carbs that I know of.
No pumps on the hitachis on my virago. Usually blipping the throttle on a stone cold engine helps, on this, the lean burp before the sliding needle whatzamajiggers react almost stalls it. Some people have, horror of horrors, torn both carbs out and put a single, pumper harley carb on with a custom manifold.
I can find a fair amount more to complain about on these carbs, but I'd have to find some non-E10 gas to test my assumptions first.
- Status