WBAL TV Baltimore: Speed cameras to start enforcement in I-95 work zone.

What about the right of a person accused of a crime to confront the witnesses against him or her in open court, as guaranteed by the 6th Amendment in the U.S.? No problem if pulled over by the police and ticketed, but a speed camera??
Interesting concept if a vehicle has rights. Since I never got a traffic camera ticket I do not know the options on it but I would be surprised if there wasnt a box for the vehicle owner to contest the charge.
I say the "vehicle" because the owner of the vehicle is not charged with a traffic violation, only the vehicle is fined, not the owner of it. Same as a parking ticket. Nothing new.
 
I don’t exactly drive the speed limit but with that said I don’t understand the opposition to enforcing the law, be it red light cameras or speeding cameras.
If the vehicle is breaking the law it gets fined.
If the people don’t like the law then it should be taken off the books so I don’t understand the opposition to cameras.
It’s an enforcement technique if people are against them they are against enforcing the laws in their states.
It’s kind of like let’s have a lore but don’t catch me breaking it.
If it were that cut ‘n dried, I wouldn’t be opposed to it either.

But it’s not.

As I mentioned in an above post, the city conspires with the company that makes and installs the cameras and artificially shortens the yellow light in order to generate more citations, which = more revenue, which = more $$$ in fines, which are then divvied up between the company (often a large defense-type contractor like Lockheed-Martin or Allied Signal or the like) and the municipality where it’s installed.

The municipality likes it because it’s an easy revenue generator, and there’s no upfront cost (funds for install, calibration, maintenance, etc. come out of the revenue that’s generated from citations).

The camera company likes it because it’s a massive cash cow.

As far as speeding goes, many speed limits are completely arbitrarily set, with no basis in science, research, or reality - they’re just limits that somebody back in the Eisenhower administration thought were appropriate.

And speeding fines are…you guessed it…mostly a tax that goes towards wasteful spending by those cities/counties/states/etc.
 
WBAL TV Baltimore: Speed cameras to start enforcement in I-95 work zone.
Maryland the only state I've ever had speeding ticket mailed to me. (Well... also Delaware.)

Just thankful they don't have nationwide speeding cameras because I'd be screwed.
 
Great idea. I've seen too many drivers speeding through work zones and putting workers in danger.
There's at least one speed camera in PA on Rt 80 that gives out tickets/warnings via mail, I think it is in or around Erie. Haven't figured out exactly where it is yet so it may be well hidden (usually you can see them) but. Two lane road like that.. I will admit, it is a great deterrent to not drive more than 5 over.

Clear enough shot, it got you sometimes.
 
As I mentioned in an above post, the city conspires with the company that makes and installs the cameras and artificially shortens the yellow light in order to generate more citations, which = more revenue, which = more $$$ in fines, which are then divvied up between the company (often a large defense-type contractor like Lockheed-Martin or Allied Signal or the like) and the municipality where it’s installed.

They can also alter the signal timing (not just shortening the yellow time) so that drivers hit as many red lights as possible, under the theory that the more red lights a driver hits, the more likely it is that they'll run one of them.

And signal maintenance is also an issue.

A couple of years ago, I was waiting to make a left turn at a signal that I make a left turn at every day. The signal went through two entire cycles and never gave me a green light to make my left turn.

Obviously a bad detector. I called VDOT to report the problem.

You might think that they would consider this a priority and fix it quickly.

Not VDOT. Despite me calling them at least 4 times to report the problem, it took them over a month to fix it, and I made a left turn against a red light every day while it was broken.

Imagine if that signal had a red light camera?

EDIT: And another example of Virginia-style signal maintenance. Back in the early to mid 2000s, I read a newspaper article about someone vandalizing a traffic signal. They broke into the cabinet and cut every wire inside.

The police chief of the city or town (can't remember which one it is and I can't find the article online, think it was either Warrenton or Culpeper) said, "Yea. You could sit at that light for 20 minutes and it wouldn't change".

So let me get this straight. The locality KNOWS the traffic signal is broken, since the police chief knows it's broken and presumably would have told the public works department, assuming that they didn't already know, and they did NOTHING to fix it until someone get fed up enough to vandalize the traffic signal wiring??

Never change, Virginia. Never change. Just like your broken traffic signals you can't be bothered to fix.
 
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As someone who works regularly in our construction zones, bring it on.

Everyone gets drivers training. Follow the speed limit. Then we post advisory speeds or lower the speed limit, post signs noting the change in speed limit, post signs about extra fines, extra consequences for tickets in work zones, etc... and it still feels like its open street racing out there... Had a presentation given where we monitored speeds in one of our work zones with a 55 mph speed limit (normal non-construction is 70 in this area), and still had speeds over 80 by over 20 percentile points of drivers. And basically had an accident a day out there...

Its the equivalent of setting up a worksite, and having active participants in it essentially ignore safety requirements.

So again, bring it on. And yes, I am that guy who slows down to the posted speed limit in a work zone and has a line a mile long tailgating me... Happened again this morning (in another country even) - part of why they were using pilot trucks in a few of the one lane sections....
I'm passing you when the construction zone ends. Other than that, I don't necessarily have a problem with what you're doing.

As someone with a pretty lead foot, plenty vehicles faster...... I slow down in active construction zones and school zones (when school is in session. Important to know that some jurisdictions don't make that distinction.)
 
No problem with passing me after the construction zone. You do your thing, I do mine - its all good. In the construction zone or where any of us are working, then I'll have words...

I wouldn't put every agency in the camp as the Virginia examples above, for a lot of reasons. I have no idea what the structure of things is in Virginia, but in this area, a signal may be maintained by the State, County, City (or other local entity). Calling the State on a local signal may not do much... (my area will pass things on to the right agency - can't make them do anything with it.)

Will also state that online reporting of issues works way better here that calling in - I've found that call ins tend to bounce all around and sometimes never get to where they are supposed to go... Emails get to us pretty quick. YMMV.
 
Calling the State on a local signal may not do much... (my area will pass things on to the right agency - can't make them do anything with it.)

Having lived in Northern Virginia for 34 years, I'm well aware of who maintains what signals. In most cases it's pretty easy to tell -- in Northern Virginia, VDOT uses 2070 style cabinets, and the cities use NEMA style cabinets. The towns that maintain their own signals also use NEMA style cabinets, and the towns that have VDOT signals use 2070 cabinets. There aren't many cities or towns in Virginia, so the vast majority of signals in Northern Virginia are maintained by VDOT.

I wouldn't put every agency in the same camp as Virginia agencies. Another thing I've learned having lived in Virginia for 34 years is the lack of any sense of urgency. They'll get "a round tuit" when they get "a round tuit". Doesn't matter if it's VDOT or the power company or the county government. And don't expect a call back, either.
 
No problem with passing me after the construction zone. You do your thing, I do mine - its all good. In the construction zone or where any of us are working, then I'll have words...

I wouldn't put every agency in the camp as the Virginia examples above, for a lot of reasons. I have no idea what the structure of things is in Virginia, but in this area, a signal may be maintained by the State, County, City (or other local entity). Calling the State on a local signal may not do much... (my area will pass things on to the right agency - can't make them do anything with it.)

Will also state that online reporting of issues works way better here that calling in - I've found that call ins tend to bounce all around and sometimes never get to where they are supposed to go... Emails get to us pretty quick. YMMV.
I just want to say it one more time that I drive pretty fast some people would say really fast to me I say kind of fast but I definitely drive faster than most people and I tone it down in construction zones.

I'm used to there being a police presence in construction zones as well but I'm seeing more and more where there aren't.

You're not going to get an argument from me about being safe in a construction zone.
 
I say the "vehicle" because the owner of the vehicle is not charged with a traffic violation, only the vehicle is fined, not the owner of it.

A legal fiction. If the vehicle is "charged" with the traffic violation then logically the vehicle should "pay" the traffic violation, which of course is not possible. Such provisions should be void for vagueness on their face. Of course state and local governments use all manner of legalistic smoke and mirror trickery to get around restrictions.

What is usually done with these automated enforcement systems is if you just shut up and pay the fine you get either no points or reduced points assigned to your driver's license. If you contest the fine and lose (very likely) you receive full points. That is sufficient inducement that the vast majority of people will not challenge it.
 
A legal fiction. If the vehicle is "charged" with the traffic violation then logically the vehicle should "pay" the traffic violation, which of course is not possible. Such provisions should be void for vagueness on their face. Of course state and local governments use all manner of legalistic smoke and mirror trickery to get around restrictions.

What is usually done with these automated enforcement systems is if you just shut up and pay the fine you get either no points or reduced points assigned to your driver's license. If you contest the fine and lose (very likely) you receive full points. That is sufficient inducement that the vast majority of people will not challenge it.
You can't not be charged points against your drivers license, unless it is proven you were the driver. Its not worth the discussion, it never happens.
BTW - why or how would you contest a fine if there is a picture of the vehicle that you own the vehicle committing a violation? No different than you parked at an expired parking meter. The only thing you can contest is the equipment is faulty in the case of a camera or meter, if you lose you will not and can be charged points.
One can't honestly believe there is going to be a police investigation to see if the traffic camera has an actual photo of your face and that of tens of thousands because of a traffic violation.
 
Those of you in support, just wait until you don't get a ticket in the mail from a camera, then get a letter over a year later stating you failed to pay or show up to court and your license is in the process of being suspended. It's a warm fuzzy feeling. I'm sure you'll enjoy contempt of court and suspended license, too.

I didn't even mind paying the fine, but to send them without registered mail or some way to make sure they're "served" is absurd.
 
You can't not be charged points against your drivers license, unless it is proven you were the driver. Its not worth the discussion, it never happens.
BTW - why or how would you contest a fine if there is a picture of the vehicle that you own the vehicle committing a violation? No different than you parked at an expired parking meter. The only thing you can contest is the equipment is faulty in the case of a camera or meter, if you lose you will not and can be charged points.
One can't honestly believe there is going to be a police investigation to see if the traffic camera has an actual photo of your face and that of tens of thousands because of a traffic violation.
There is. An actual officer has to sign the ticket verifying a clear face picture and license plate picture. Also, if you're not the driver in the picture, you return it saying it wasn't you driving. Or, if you never get the ticket in the mail, possibly because the DMV didn't update your wife's maiden name, you get a notice over a year later your license is being suspended. It's a real great system...
 
Stuff like this isn’t popular in the free state of Tennessee.

It’s been tried. Then we realized that it was all about the money.

Red light cams were installed about 20 years ago in my home town of Germantown, and then we figured out that the yellow lights had been deliberately, artificially, shortened in order to ticket more people, and generate more revenue for the municipality and for the camera company.

The cams are still there, and they still cite people, but there is no enforcement (if you get the ticket in the mail and don’t pay it, nothing will happen to you).
It's not about the money (at least completely). Red light cameras have reduced accidents at intersections near me by over 90%. It's a fact they work. But they should have to verify you receive the citation so you're not getting contempt and license suspension threats for a citation you never received.
 
There is. An actual officer has to sign the ticket verifying a clear face picture and license plate picture. Also, if you're not the driver in the picture, you return it saying it wasn't you driving. Or, if you never get the ticket in the mail, possibly because the DMV didn't update your wife's maiden name, you get a notice over a year later your license is being suspended. It's a real great system...
This is not done in NY, you don't state where you are
 
This is not done in NY, you don't state where you ar

Interesting concept if a vehicle has rights. Since I never got a traffic camera ticket I do not know the options on it but I would be surprised if there wasnt a box for the vehicle owner to contest the charge.
I say the "vehicle" because the owner of the vehicle is not charged with a traffic violation, only the vehicle is fined, not the owner of it. Same as a parking ticket. Nothing new.
You can contest by showing up in court. And the officer that signed off on the ticket may show up, too. The one I eventually saw was stored online and pretty much a video they had so many pictures stitched together. Being "served" the papers was our issue. Never saw them in the mail. Then received contempt and license suspension paperwork from the courts. I live in a state where the words "equity" are used as a great virtue signal and then they have laws like this, that I'd venture affect those with "less" significantly more than those with "more". I guess equity only applies when it's not about driving to work or having days to take off to go to court to clear things up.
 
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