Watched "Idiocracy" Movie - interesting concept!

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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Pilots are middle of the road. The guys designing the jets are top tier. I don't think intelligence is inherited any more than good health. Cancer
http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2011/01/average-iq-by-occupation.html Agreed, pilots are of average intelligence at about 105.6. Aeronautical Engineers are not generally categorized, but it's accepted that the good ones are in the 140's. However, IQ is absolutely inherited. Tambs et al.[102]found that occupational status, educational attainment, and IQ are individually heritable.
 
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Astro14

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Statistics apply to groups, not individuals. There are some guys bringing that average up, and some bringing it down, whether we are talking engineers or pilots.
 
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Originally Posted By: SwedishRider
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
A lot of it is already true if you look around with a critical eye.
Or with a negative, contemptuous eye.
Come on. One of the biggest sources of controversy on the internets are puzzles asking for the answer to equations like "5+5+5-5*5+5" -- if that is not idiocracy then I don't know how else you would define idiocracy. (overall, 53% of the people have the wrong answer to this 1-st grade problem).
Isn't the answer -5... are they really teaching negative numbers in first grade?!?
Yes. They don't teach the rules of algebra in 1st grade.
 
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Problem is that what is considered desirable in our society is not the recipe for successful Darwinism in the current climate (Oz or US). Smart, hard working people saving to be able to support themselves in their retirement budget their finances and procreative effort, and foster similar values in their offspring. The most adaptable to the current environment gain the most benefit from the current environment by adopting behaviours that provide the least effort existence now, and are scarcely worried about next week, let alone in 50 years. They foster similar values in their offspring. In 20 years, how many of each group will be voting for who takes money off the other and gives it to themselves ?
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I wouldn't know about pilots' intelligence in general, so I won't argue your observation. But if you're judging a person solely on the basis of their occupation, then you're both superficial and a snob.
To say it's genetic is worse than being a snob. Smacks of a master race type mentality.
But it is genetic, to a large degree. You want to win an Olympic medal? Choose your parents carefully. You need certain genetic traits, certain physical attributes that come from heredity. Without them, all the training in the world won't get you that podium. Is your point that intelligence is completely random? I don't buy that at all...you've never heard the expression, "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree"? It's still around because, to a large degree, it's true. Since you have already made specious assumptions about me, based on one data point, my present profession, we won't use my children as an example.
] as astro says, intelligence IS, to a large degree, genetic. the jay leno video is funny, and very revealing. for a laugh, I punched up "ranking of education systems", and a site showed reading, writing, and math skills' rankings, by country.since most here are americans, I looked at u.s. rankings.the numbers weren't good. of the top 65 countries, the u.s. ranked 24th in reading, 36 in writing, and 28th in math. one would think that such an advanced country that spends a lot of money on education would rank higher.believe what you want about these numbers. have a good day, all.
 
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Intelligence is a combination of physical traits and the social environment that develops and nurtures those traits. Most humans possess the physical traits to be intelligent. In that sense, the genetic aspect plays very little role. It is not easy to measure intelligence. We have a flawed tool, IQ, that attempts to do it but is itself biased. But even with that, 68% of all the respondents fall within +/- standard deviation of 100. You will wonder why I call it a flawed tool. For example, there are a few questions in it that measure ability to analyze volume, temperature, weight, etc. In the US it is not in metric while it is in metric in the rest of the world. So, if you bring a foreigner to the US and measure their intelligence, they will artificially get a lower score because of the measurement units. So, the biases resulting from the social environment will affect the measurement of their intelligence. The same thing happens with the different cultural segments in the US. The IQ is designed by mainstream white scientists and it will fail to accurately measure non-white intelligence. This might be by design or by ignorance, I cannot speculate.
 
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Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
I think Judge was inspired by several stories written by SF writer C.M. Kornbluth back in the 1950s, "The marching Morons" and "The Little Black Bag." Very much the same idea as "Idiocracy": the idiots outbred the smarter people. In Kornbluth's vision, the small group of "supernormals," who would like to live apart from the "normals" (who are dummies), have to run things, but they allow the idiots to think they're intelligent and that the supernormals are their inferiors. The supernormals have a tour of duty, like the Army, where they work in secret to keep the idiots from destroying themselves; then the supernormals get time off with their own kind. I'd read someplace that Kornbluth's idea had been disproved by science since his day. But whenever I read news stories or go out in public, I know darn well he was right! (ETA: the Wikipedia page mentions Kornbluth. Good.)
exactly, it sounds like lite (dumbed down, LOL) version of the "The marching Morons". not sure about the disproving part. the IQ scores flattened in developed nations (still rising in developing nations) and USA's SAT scores have been falling non stop (but slowly) since the late 60's forcing a few revisions how scores are calculated (dumbing them down).
 
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Originally Posted By: yeti
as astro says, intelligence IS, to a large degree, genetic.
In fact, the subject is very well studied. In average, the offspring of an individual with an IQ of 90 and an IQ of 110 will be right in the middle of the two at about 100. And more extreme examples exist showing the same. Of course, there are many variations among individuals. Children adopted from low IQ parents and raised in high IQ homes fare little better in IQ than their real siblings.
 
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Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Pilots are middle of the road. The guys designing the jets are top tier. I don't think intelligence is inherited any more than good health. Cancer
http://anepigone.blogspot.com/2011/01/average-iq-by-occupation.html Agreed, pilots are of average intelligence at about 105.6. Aeronautical Engineers are not generally categorized, but it's accepted that the good ones are in the 140's. However, IQ is absolutely inherited. Tambs et al.[102]found that occupational status, educational attainment, and IQ are individually heritable.
interesting info. i didn't see that one before. the one i saw showed higher values for scientists and doctors. BTW, 105.6 is above average by definition. now, to be clear, IQ alone will not predict a success or failure. motivation, organization skills, social/emotional intelligence also contribute greatly. but, it's easier with higher IQ score to succeed if you have the other things covered.
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Problem is that what is considered desirable in our society is not the recipe for successful Darwinism in the current climate (Oz or US). Smart, hard working people saving to be able to support themselves in their retirement budget their finances and procreative effort, and foster similar values in their offspring. The most adaptable to the current environment gain the most benefit from the current environment by adopting behaviours that provide the least effort existence now, and are scarcely worried about next week, let alone in 50 years. They foster similar values in their offspring. In 20 years, how many of each group will be voting for who takes money off the other and gives it to themselves ?
Shannow, gets it.
 

Astro14

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Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Problem is that what is considered desirable in our society is not the recipe for successful Darwinism in the current climate (Oz or US). Smart, hard working people saving to be able to support themselves in their retirement budget their finances and procreative effort, and foster similar values in their offspring. The most adaptable to the current environment gain the most benefit from the current environment by adopting behaviours that provide the least effort existence now, and are scarcely worried about next week, let alone in 50 years. They foster similar values in their offspring. In 20 years, how many of each group will be voting for who takes money off the other and gives it to themselves ?
Shannow, gets it.
Shannow always does....
 

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Originally Posted By: yeti
for a laugh, I punched up "ranking of education systems", and a site showed reading, writing, and math skills' rankings, by country.since most here are americans, I looked at u.s. rankings.the numbers weren't good. of the top 65 countries, the u.s. ranked 24th in reading, 36 in writing, and 28th in math. one would think that such an advanced country that spends a lot of money on education would rank higher.
Be prepared to be called out for attacking America.
Originally Posted By: yeti
believe what you want about these numbers.
A prescient statement.
 
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Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
now, to be clear, IQ alone will not predict a success or failure. motivation, organization skills, social/emotional intelligence also contribute greatly. but, it's easier with higher IQ score to succeed if you have the other things covered.
That sure seems true. However it is also true that exceptionally successful people are rarely low IQ.
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Since you have already made specious assumptions about me, based on one data point, my present profession,
Its more than one. And none of that is based on your profession. More just differences in political and life view. On the contrary, who wouldn't want to be a Navy fighter pilot. It's bad [censored], honorable, courageous and on and on. Almost as good as being an astronaut. I was just busting on you to make a point.
Then I guess I'm missing the point... If it's: listening to Taylor Swift is a sign of low intelligence, well, I disagree, though I'm not a fan of hers. If it's: intelligence is random, well, I disagree on that one, too. If it's: Astro is a dummy, his smart kid proves my second point...well, I'll probably disagree on that too... Finally, don't ignore the effect of environment as I mentioned above. Nature vs nurture is akin to asking what's more important in the area of a rectangle: length, or width?
Right. People tend to select indicators that make themselves look good. Hey, I'm a rocket scientist. Or my kid finished college when he was 8. Or I scored xxx on an intelligence test. You know you can practice for those tests to get an artificially high score. They have some weird questions such as comparatives. A chair is to a house as a house is to ______. Mult choice. Any you have to pick the closest. And as far as being a snob about profession. Everybody does it. Right? But you've probably never referred to a cargo plane as a rubber dog [censored] flyer.
 
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Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Problem is that what is considered desirable in our society is not the recipe for successful Darwinism in the current climate (Oz or US). Smart, hard working people saving to be able to support themselves in their retirement budget their finances and procreative effort, and foster similar values in their offspring. The most adaptable to the current environment gain the most benefit from the current environment by adopting behaviours that provide the least effort existence now, and are scarcely worried about next week, let alone in 50 years. They foster similar values in their offspring. In 20 years, how many of each group will be voting for who takes money off the other and gives it to themselves ?
Shannow, gets it.
Shannow always does....
Its amazing to me though that people relying on government assistance and the taxes of more successful people, rarely vote in their own interests. Its the "bleeding heart" higher IQ successful liberals that vote for the welfare class's interests, not the welfare class itself. I guess its that the welfare class is easily fooled by political posturing and don't analyze what politicians actually do.
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Its amazing to me though that people relying on government assistance and the taxes of more successful people, rarely vote in their own interests. Its the "bleeding heart" higher IQ successful liberals that vote for the welfare class's interests, not the welfare class itself. I guess its that the welfare class is easily fooled by political posturing and don't analyze what politicians actually do.
well said and very true. it's amazing to see how people from the poorest states go out of they ways to put well to do people in power.
 

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Originally Posted By: Cujet
The 7% in the second column represents detention officers.
 
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