Watched a documentary on OceanGate

It was exempt from certain regulations that applied to newer plants due to "grandfathering". This was at least in part due to the fact that their Nuclear Safety Commission was comprised of the plant operators and not an arms-length independent regulatory body comprised of SME's like is the case elsewhere.

I mean, it's the "this coffee is hot" level of stupid, right? The risk should have been obvious, and the same applies to recreational space travel. These are not mature industries with a body of test data and established processes like conventional air travel for example, which has an extremely low rate of incidence, given the number of flights per day. These are niche industries with bespoke products, failure is inevitable.

As I said, regulation isn't inherently good or bad. The purpose is to usually prevent known failures by leveraging known solutions, enforced by an agency that's supposed to be an expert on the subject. Far too often however, these bodies are hijacked by special interest groups or folks with an agenda who then produce regulatory framework that doesn't serve the purpose of increasing safety and instead just acts as a barrier into the space and slowing progress, often at great cost. Or, in the case of firearms regulation in Canada, preys on public ignorance and fear to advance non-solutions so that an agency can claim they are "doing something" while railroading people that are guaranteed to be compliant. Leaving the hard task of going after the criminals to someone else to deal with. This is made brutally obvious when the people running these orgs don't even know the existing laws and regulations.
We agree. But others were calling for regulation on a experimental deep submarine.

Fukishima likely affected everyone on earth. If not due to the radiation released, then do to the subsequent cost increase on global electricity due to the falling out for the nuclear power industry. Regulation of such things is required for the good of the many.

The fact that an experimental sub failed is tragic, but does not affect many. No need for govco to be involved IMHO. People need to understand what "experimental" actually means.
 
We agree. But others were calling for regulation on a experimental deep submarine.

Fukishima likely affected everyone on earth. If not due to the radiation released, then do to the subsequent cost increase on global electricity due to the falling out for the nuclear power industry. Regulation of such things is required for the good of the many.

The fact that an experimental sub failed is tragic, but does not affect many. No need for govco to be involved IMHO. People need to understand what "experimental" actually means.
Yes, in the case of Fukushima, this was (the failure of) regulation in a mature 50+ year old industry.

I'm not sure what regulation could be imposed on the nascent consumer submarine space that would make it meaningfully more safe at this juncture. The lesson of "don't use carbon fibre" was clearly on display here, but who would that now apply to? And who would a subsequent failure affect beyond those involved who would be knowingly participating in an activity with massive amounts of risk?

As you note, the risk here is isolated to the participants, unless there is a sudden surge in recreational submarining, I agree with your assessment that there's no need for regulation at this juncture.
 
I got heavily rabbit holed after it happened, and there were just so many "NO"s yelling in my head at every new piece on information.

Day one as soon as they mentioned carbon fibre construction, with titanium vessel ends, told my wife that it collapsed like a dented coke can....then a few weeks ago they mentioned a "bang" and permanent deformation of the strain guages...and they went down again after....for a bloke who was so confident of his design and understanding, to have not scrapped the hull was criminally negligent.

Design out of approved standards - engineers CAN do that where not possible/appropriate
Carbon fibre in compression - I'll pass
Carbon fibre laid axially and circumferentially - when they were specificaly told diagonally - I'll pass (and it wouldn't have changed mind on the last point).
Thick walled vessel of laminated construction...I'd do it for a pressure vessel, not for this.
Glued on end caps - I'll pass, I know that's the only way, but see point two.

Not only was the cylinder surrounded by a pressure, but it's also a column in buckling keeping the end caps apart...do the trick where you stand on a coke can and get someone to poke the side.

Just no....even without the PT Barnum aspect.
I was told the nose had fallen off post dive on an earlier run …
Not sure the films made mention of that …
Hydrostatic of 5K - Ti glued to CF … 👀
 
I just watched it.

I certainly won't be the first to claim I knew nothing of this showboat's operation. That's exactly what this Rush guy was. PT Barnum. If he spoke directly to me, I would not believe much of what he said. I actually thought - foolishly - the whole operation had some semblance of rigor when it was operating................see there is the problem, and should be regulated, and I am not a regulation person.
Recently Josh Gates from the Destination Truth show was interviewed and according to him was invited up to look at the submersible by Stockton Rush. After a thorough look over he said "it wasn't for him" or no freaking way would he get in it. Stockton fired the lead engineers when they told him you can't bond carbon fiber and steel together without a catastrophic event occurring. And look what happened. If he was smart he would have made it an rov and tested that way.
 
You all may have talked me into watching this.

Typically, I truly nerd out on matters like this, but this one was different. It appears to be such a story of extreme arrogance, incompetence, gross recklessness with others' lives and flat-out stupidity that I had almost no interest in it beyond the basic story. Not a story of a skilled crew valiantly struggling with a broken craft in a vain attempt to save themselves and their passengers, not even close....
 
You all may have talked me into watching this.

Typically, I truly nerd out on matters like this, but this one was different. It appears to be such a story of extreme arrogance, incompetence, gross recklessness with others' lives and flat-out stupidity that I had almost no interest in it beyond the basic story. Not a story of a skilled crew valiantly struggling with a broken craft in a vain attempt to save themselves and their passengers, not even close....
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You all may have talked me into watching this.

Typically, I truly nerd out on matters like this, but this one was different. It appears to be such a story of extreme arrogance, incompetence, gross recklessness with others' lives and flat-out stupidity that I had almost no interest in it beyond the basic story. Not a story of a skilled crew valiantly struggling with a broken craft in a vain attempt to save themselves and their passengers, not even close....
What struck me -- if true -- is that he paid engineers and "safety" people but the second they told him NO he just fired them. It begs the obvious question: why employ skilled experts if you simply ignore their concerns the second they disagree with you??

Presumably it was for appearances and/or to stroke his ego ("look at my crack team"), but again -- totally pointless if they're just window dressing and dissenting opinions are immediately fired.
 
Watched both the Netflix one and the other on Discovery (?) channel. Liked the Netflix one better. Very interesting and sad story at the same time. Narcissistic CEO. Never don't say anything w/r to safety at work. Was glad to see some hold the high ground and walk...good for them. Carbon fiber is amazing. Have several bikes in the garage with CF frames and wheelsets. Strong and light. When it breaks it breaks.
 
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