Wana see a Tesla humiliate some drag cars?

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Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Tesla has turned out to be a good bet. The gigafactory is forecast to generate $100bn for the Nevada economy over 2 decades.

They open sourced their technology a while ago. India wants to phase out petrol and diesel by 2030. UK and France by 2040. China is now looking at it and they produce a third of the world's vehicles and are the biggest market for cars. Volvo will have only hybrid or full electric vehicles by 2020. BMW will have 12 full electric cars available by 2025.

Elon Musk will go down in history alongside Carl Benz and Henry Ford. He and Tesla have succeeded in changing the automobile industry in a major major way.
ROFL.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
It was no scandal, it was Chinese dumping cheap panels on the market, on purpose, to knock them out of business.


It WAS a scandal. Our government had zero business putting a dime of taxpayer money into Solyndra. They KNEW they were going broke, and gave them the money anyway. Full well knowing the U.S. taxpayer would never see a penny of the $535 MILLION ever paid back. It's not an "investment" when you know you're going to lose money. It is a SCANDAL.


Nope. GWB's Solyndra project was derailed by Chinese dumping cheap and inferior panels to break the competition of Solyndra's superior technology. Period, that is the story. No scandal except fabricated for other reasons. There is no other story. A kid wants to make something called Yahoo, how crazy is that. Google, give me a break who would even think that is something. It's always easy to be the expert after the fact. So easy to criticize the game plays the next day from an arm chair. The government made the internet you are using. They made no money back on it, except now it is a big part of the economy. Just be happy the government is in a position to "waste" money on things like advanced military tech, much of which takes a lot of "wasted money" to discover the advancements.
So taxpayers take a hit because "sumbody" wasn't bright enough to anticipate Chinese dumping. Yeah, right.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Tesla has turned out to be a good bet. The gigafactory is forecast to generate $100bn for the Nevada economy over 2 decades.

They open sourced their technology a while ago. India wants to phase out petrol and diesel by 2030. UK and France by 2040. China is now looking at it and they produce a third of the world's vehicles and are the biggest market for cars. Volvo will have only hybrid or full electric vehicles by 2020. BMW will have 12 full electric cars available by 2025.

Elon Musk will go down in history alongside Carl Benz and Henry Ford. He and Tesla have succeeded in changing the automobile industry in a major major way.
A "good bet" pays a dividend. Does Tesla?
 
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Lets see Seattle to Missoula Mt. non stop doing the legal speed limit lets see who gets there first.


At 475 miles even gas cars will need to stop for fuel. The tesla model s needs one 20min charge on a supercharger during the trip to make it. There are 4 supercharger locations spread throughout I-90 between Seattle & Missoula. It's funny the hate here about any new tech. As for charging stations check out the map:
Tesla Charging Map
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Shannow
London - Charge Rage.

Peak lithium, here we come...

Electricity's free ride about to end - n...ystem solution.


So much doom and gloom! Do you have a special plug in to search for those links?


Nah, 28 years in power generation, watching charlatans and unicorn tear salesmen peddle their wares into getting handouts of other people's money.

There's just plain old simple facts that are ignored by those listening to them, and following on to their flute playing.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Originally Posted By: Shannow
London - Charge Rage.

Peak lithium, here we come...

Electricity's free ride about to end - n...ystem solution.


So much doom and gloom! Do you have a special plug in to search for those links?


Nah, 28 years in power generation, watching charlatans and unicorn tear salesmen peddle their wares into getting handouts of other people's money.

There's just plain old simple facts that are ignored by those listening to them, and following on to their flute playing.


That's good to know.

Did you learn to read the stories you linked to? The last story's content is very different to the headline you posted and says there won't be a peak use problem in 2040.
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
That's good to know.

Did you learn to read the stories you linked to? The last story's content is very different to the headline you posted and says there won't be a peak use problem in 2040.


Did you read what I said, and rub a few neurons together to try to keep up ?

I never mentioned the 40% increase in peak power...

Quote:
That would mean most cars are fully electric vehicles by 2040, and they would push up peak demand by around 5GW, around an 8% increase on current levels.
.
.
.
And there would be “time of use” tariffs which make electricity more expensive during peak times, so smart systems would power up car batteries out of peak hours where possible to save money, reducing the impact of car charging on the grid.


Like I said...

They will stop "free" charging stations, and will need to introduce time of use tarrifs to control that peak load down to the 8%...i.e. it will have to get expensive during the peaks (for everyone)...and it's going to increase the capacity factor (output) of fossil fueled (schedulable) plant.

As I've explained repeatedly to one (former) Tesla fan...at present the time to charge your Tesla is middle of the night off peak...when solar comes in in large scale (remember that to replace 1,000MW of thermal with solar, you need 3-4,000), midnight prices are going to be scarily expensive, as the round trip levelised cost of storage according to Lazard (you can google it) is $0.25c/KWh to pay for the battery and cycling, even WITH free solar electricity.

And those stationary TESLA batteries are being made of what ?

Lithium of course, so every car is going to rely on two lithium batteries to stay charged (very expensively I might add)...which reinforces my "peak lithium, here we come" comment too.

Or the unicorns can fly down little packets of electrons...
 
Originally Posted By: strongt
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Lets see Seattle to Missoula Mt. non stop doing the legal speed limit lets see who gets there first.


At 475 miles even gas cars will need to stop for fuel.


That's only 760Km. My wifes Golf (55L tank) and her Landrover (80L tank) will both do more than that on a tank at highway speeds. My 89 Volvo, not so much
smile.gif

Heck, the Landrover will do that around town.
 
Originally Posted By: strongt
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Lets see Seattle to Missoula Mt. non stop doing the legal speed limit lets see who gets there first.


At 475 miles even gas cars will need to stop for fuel. The tesla model s needs one 20min charge on a supercharger during the trip to make it. There are 4 supercharger locations spread throughout I-90 between Seattle & Missoula. It's funny the hate here about any new tech. As for charging stations check out the map:
Tesla Charging Map


Can only use the supercharger a limited number of times at high charge rate....

Quote:
The issue came back into focus this week after a Tesla owner returned from a road trip where he used several different Superchargers and couldn’t get a charge rate above 90 kW even though the top charge rate is officially 120 kW.

He went to the Tesla Service Center and posted the technician’s conclusion to the Tesla Motors Club:

Supercharger General Diagnosis Conclusion: No Trouble Found. Review vehicle logs and verify charging is topping out a lower rate than observed on earlier DC charging sessions. According to Tesla engineers, once vehicle has been DC fast charged over a specified amount, the battery management system restricts DC charging to prevent degradation of the battery pack. According to Tesla engineers, this vehicle has seen significant DC fast charging and is now has permanently restricted DC charging speeds. Important to note, supercharging will always still be available to the vehicle and the battery pack has not yet experienced significant degradation due to the amount of DC fast charging performed on the pack up until this point in time. Vehicle is operating as designed.

The news that a limit has been placed on DC fast-charging has sparked some outrage among Tesla owners in the thread, but to be fair, this particular Tesla owner has been virtually only charging through DC fast-charging, which is not common amongst electric vehicle owners.

He said that he accumulated 6,685.603 kWh of DC fast charges during 245 total charge ups on CHAdeMO only – and he estimates that he used Superchargers on “50 to 60 occasions” on top of that.


So at that point in your Tesla's life, with the 85KWh battery, it's drive 265 miles, spend an hour on the Supercharger (not 20 mins), then drive off again...assuming you don't have to wait in line for the other guy(s) using their hour.

I can use the fast fill diesel pump at the truck stop every time I fill up, and no degradation...and the guy behind me only has to wait 5-6 minutes.
 
Originally Posted By: Brad_C
Originally Posted By: strongt
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Lets see Seattle to Missoula Mt. non stop doing the legal speed limit lets see who gets there first.


At 475 miles even gas cars will need to stop for fuel.


That's only 760Km. My wifes Golf (55L tank) and her Landrover (80L tank) will both do more than that on a tank at highway speeds. My 89 Volvo, not so much
smile.gif

Heck, the Landrover will do that around town.


Tesla has to stop every 265 miles...475 miles, only my Caprice would have to stop.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
That's good to know.

Did you learn to read the stories you linked to? The last story's content is very different to the headline you posted and says there won't be a peak use problem in 2040.


Did you read what I said, and rub a few neurons together to try to keep up ?

I never mentioned the 40% increase in peak power...

Quote:
That would mean most cars are fully electric vehicles by 2040, and they would push up peak demand by around 5GW, around an 8% increase on current levels.
.
.
.
And there would be “time of use” tariffs which make electricity more expensive during peak times, so smart systems would power up car batteries out of peak hours where possible to save money, reducing the impact of car charging on the grid.


Like I said...

They will stop "free" charging stations, and will need to introduce time of use tarrifs to control that peak load down to the 8%...i.e. it will have to get expensive during the peaks (for everyone)...and it's going to increase the capacity factor (output) of fossil fueled (schedulable) plant.

As I've explained repeatedly to one (former) Tesla fan...at present the time to charge your Tesla is middle of the night off peak...when solar comes in in large scale (remember that to replace 1,000MW of thermal with solar, you need 3-4,000), midnight prices are going to be scarily expensive, as the round trip levelised cost of storage according to Lazard (you can google it) is $0.25c/KWh to pay for the battery and cycling, even WITH free solar electricity.

And those stationary TESLA batteries are being made of what ?

Lithium of course, so every car is going to rely on two lithium batteries to stay charged (very expensively I might add)...which reinforces my "peak lithium, here we come" comment too.

Or the unicorns can fly down little packets of electrons...


It's a bit sad you resort to insults.

I don't read all your writings. You may be good at your job, maybe all seeing, but I doubt that you are correctly analyzing how the market will evolve, what the mix of electrical power will be in different countries, what solutions and innovations will come over the next few decades, and what prices consumers will bear.

Lithium battery costs are falling by 20% a year. The demand for batteries is great enough that there is money to be made from innovating. Other sources of energy apart from solar are being developed.

Here in CA, 60% of electricity is generated from natural gas. At today's prices, home solar power becomes economically worthwhile if you spend over $60 a month on electricity. Electricity is quite expensive compared to the national average, but if I were to fully charge a Tesla, it would cost half as much to drive as it would with gas. So if I drove hundreds of miles a week, I could find a solution right now in the event that your prophecy that an all electric car state or nation would be powered through an all solar and battery grid suddenly came true tomorrow.

With today's incomes, the cost of electricity is nothing. People spend as much on Starbucks as they do electricity. My water bill goes up more than my electricity bill does in the summer months.

So really, well done on calculating the costs of having a 100% solar powered country that will recharge all it's battery powered cars at midnight and for repeatedly identifying the peak electricity usage issues. I'm sure that all the people planning national grids never thought to consider such simple issues.
 
Originally Posted By: CharlieBauer
Did you learn to read the stories you linked to?


33.gif
33.gif
33.gif
I thought insults were your tools of trade, just responding in the manner that you seem to prefer when addressing people.

Yes, the people who run the grids are running scared at present.

See my posts on the great South Australian experiment, where ideology has been trumping engineering for a decade...they have blackouts, and the most expensive power in the country.

And (btw, NG isn't the carbon free future, is it ?)

My diesel Colorado is going to consume diesel in the next 5 years to produce the carbon footprint of a Tesla battery...and if that battery is charged with NG electricity, where's the green ?

HTS_TR used to use the silly strawman that he could run his car on the dyno in his garage and not suffocate...while his neighbour with the generator at the other end of the extension cord clearly is.

And YES, your electricity WILL become more expensive...when DEMAND goes up, what happens before supply does in any market ?

Subsidised renewables push out traditional power...that's a fact...then they get really expensive...

Smart guys at AEMO (Australian market operators) have done the sums, and the wholesale prices doubled...

http://reneweconomy.com.au/100-renewables-for-australia-not-so-costly-after-all-50218/
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
GWB's Solyndra project was derailed by Chinese dumping cheap and inferior panels to break the competition of Solyndra's superior technology. Period, that is the story. No scandal except fabricated for other reasons. There is no other story.


What does any of that have to do with the FACT the taxpayers LOST $535,000,000.00, they had no business losing? That loss was not "fabricated". You're living in a fantasy world.
 
It's not going away when you see energy companies are not just fueling these transitions - they add technology to needed materials ranging from high grade plastics to the technology/materials like thin films for batteries.
They provide specialized lubricants for wind - and will add support where it makes economic sense.

But this Tesla is way too expensive - and only the combinations of the newer/smaller Tesla, the Giga Factory being cost effective, and some additional places to charge will make this all work well enough for the final analysis...
A high percentage of drivers have one vehicle - I wouldn't recommend EV as that lone dependency - so in the mean time I'm more comfortable having a Hybrid.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So at that point in your Tesla's life, with the 85KWh battery, it's drive 265 miles, spend an hour on the Supercharger (not 20 mins), then drive off again...assuming you don't have to wait in line for the other guy(s) using their hour.


This is a very logical point the Tesla worshippers conveniently dismiss. Pull into most any crowded filling station with 20 or more pumps during morning rush hour. When many people are at the pump filling up. They're in and out in minutes. Most would be even faster except for the fact they take longer buying their coffee, doughnuts, and lottery tickets, then they do their gas.

Now replace all of those with 1 hour per charge Tesla's, and you've got a nightmare. "Charging Stations" would be backed up daily, worse then these people in Florida waiting to gas up before the hurricane. Yet the Tesla lovers think solutions to this are, "just around the corner". When in reality the only thing that's just around the corner, are the lines that will form from people trying to charge their dead Tesla batteries. "Dreamers" are not limited to people overrunning our borders. Quite a few of them can be found at Tesla dealerships drooling over their overpriced, unaffordable, ideological fantasy.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So at that point in your Tesla's life, with the 85KWh battery, it's drive 265 miles, spend an hour on the Supercharger (not 20 mins), then drive off again...assuming you don't have to wait in line for the other guy(s) using their hour.


This is a very logical point the Tesla worshippers conveniently dismiss.


That is correct as electric charging is not just limited to Supercharger stations.
Most Tesla drivers won't need to stop as they will have charged at home, only using Supercharger stations for longer trips.
Here is the UK I've witnessed a gradual increase in charging points in car parks, public and private.

Cheers, Nick
 
Tesla's require you to constantly monitor battery status, and to plan ahead, and act accordingly as far as charging requirements. How many people drive around with empty tanks, as opposed to keeping their tanks full? People are forgetful, and tend to get side tracked as to these matters. If you let your fuel tank get down to empty, (as many do), it's not a big deal. Pull in, fill up, and be on your way. If you forget to charge your Telsa, you're flat out screwed. You're not going anywhere. Or else just far enough to get stranded. And if it's an emergency, you're really screwed. Especially if you don't have a gasoline powered vehicle as a back up.

They're just not practical as of yet. In the long run perhaps. But the problem with that is in the long run, we'll all be dead. As of now they're a fun toy and a novelty for the man who has everything. When battery technology improves, along with charging time. Then maybe. And even then they're going to have to get the purchase price down to that of a comparable cost and performance gas car. That's not happening any time soon. And being able to charge a battery as fast as you can fill a 26 gallon tank is too far into the future to even think about now. Let alone having enough places available to do it.
 
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