VW TDI 505.01 specific oil questions.

[bigspoke]

I don't want to buy the Castrol 505.01 from my dealer for my '04 VW TDI after seeing the VOA on it. Thought the Motul 505.01 would be better. Does anyone know where to buy this oil at a decent price either in auto parts chains or by mail order? I wonder how Amsoil is doing with the possibility of producing an oil for us 2004 TDI owners? It would sell like crazy. I was dissapointed to find how limited my choices are currently for oil. After warranty, what Amsoil product would be better than the 505.01? I don't care if emmisions were higher because you guys say the new 505.01 is low on some additives. What is your opinion as to going with Amsoil series 3000 5w-30HD or 5w-40HD after warranty is up and why would you use it? Would you recommend something else? Sorry for all the questions but this issue is relly confusing for me and others. Wish I could just top her off with BOBZOIL, LOL. Thanks in advance, Gary.

[ April 13, 2004, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: bigspoke ]

 

[vonTrapp]

This is a great question. Has it been addressed before in these forums?

My inlaws have a 2003 TDI...and the VW dealer just absolutely rips customers. The oil charge is effing ridiculous.

The Castrol grade that is spec'd for that motor is only available from the dealers...but I do not understand how a slightly different Castrol Syntec grade would possibly make any difference(like the grades you can buy from WalMart).

I don't remember the VW spec'd grade (Syntec 15W50 or something silly like that). So if we were to use readily available oil like Syntec 10W50 (again whatever the grade is) what harm could it do?

I ask because I figured this site would be the best place to do it!

 

[n8wvi]

Mobil1 0w-40 meets VW 502.00/505.00,503.01 (among many others).

What's the difference between these and 505.01?

Dave

 

[Ken2]

Bigspoke,

What oil does your dealership use if you just take the car in for an oil change? The VW dealers here use a cheap bulk oil in the gasoline engines that does not meet the spec in the owner's manual. I telephoned VW of America and they said that whatever the dealer used was OK with them.

If it was my TDI, I'd use either Schaeffer #700 or Mobil Delvac 1/Mobil 1 Truck & SUV oil.


Ken

 

[Andy H]

FowVay, to add insult to injury, the oil spec thing isn't just about VW -- this is one of the primary differences with the European oil specs. The Euro specs are manufacturer driven vice coming mainly from the lube industry as are the API specs. And more and more US automakers are coming out with their own specs because the API system is letting them down with product quality. I expect to see more of the world going to a manufacturer-focus oil spec.

BigSpoke - where in the country are you? There are a couple of folks importing Motul now - one here in central Texas. Hit Fred's TDI Club and look thru the Oils/lubes forum. There are a couple of sources for this oil in the US.

Ken2 - I wouldn't recommend either of these oils for use in the new TDI. One of them misses the mark on two counts, the other on one. VW has come out very strongly that warranty issues will appear if 505.01 oil isn't used; which has prompted a lawsuite from the lube change industry on Mag-Moss grounds. This is one lube spec that I'd follow to the letter until the dust clears.

 

[Pablo]

Good post Andy H.

Where does it say Delvac 1 or M1 rig oil meets VW 505.01?

 

[FowVay]

Please note that VW 505.00 is for 2003 and earlier model diesels. VW 505.01 is for 2004 model diesels that use the unit injector engine. The 2004 TDI 'BEW' engine is different from the earlier TDI 'ALH' and 'AHU' engine.

VW 502.00 spec is their specification for gasoline engines.

VW 505.00 spec is their specification for non-PD (unit injector) diesel engines.

VW 503.01 spec is their specification for extended drain intervals for gas engines.

There are several other Volkswagen specifications also. Their entire oil recommendation is a complete joke and many oil companies are not even bothering to submit blends for their approval because Volkswagen changes their application and requirement anytime the wind blows. It's getting much too costly for the companies to blend oils that meet a requirement for only 3 years and then something new comes out.

500.00, 501.01, 502.00 503.00, 503.01, 505.00, 506.00, 506.01, plus three separate factory fill standards. I am certain that I've missed a few in here too. It's no wonder companies are fed up with trying to meet VW's ever changing requirements.

I long for the days of API SF,CD

edited to correct the viscosity of the 503.01

[ April 15, 2004, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: FowVay ]

 

[Pablo]

As much hootin' and hollerin' people make about Amsoil "claiming to meet every spec.", I found it interesting that with the new 5W-40, Amsoil clearly told me it DOESN'T meet 505.01.....

 

[bigspoke]

Thanks, for your good post AndyH and FowVay. Motul is also brewing the 505.01 along with Castrol. Much better oil so I did some searching. Came up with a business in Tx that sells Motul (Archer Motorsports, I think the name may be wrong.) I'll post with business name and toll free phone # tomorrow when I'm at home. Anyway I got a case of 5 liter jugs (yes, liters) w/4 jugs per case @ $30 per jug. Forrest from Archer Motorsports gave me a 10% discount on the order and sold the case for $108. I also bought 2 liter bottles of the oil at $7.50/liter so I have some make up oil in case the engine consumes some during break in period. Added $10 shipping for the whole mess and that adds up to $6/liter when purchased in jug form. Fill is 5 liters in the TDI crankcase. PERFECTO! If you like Motul or are stuck in the middle of VW's bullsheet oil fiasco you may want to call them. Again, I'll post that contant info later today. Now, where can I purchase VW OEM filters for less than $10 to get me thru that warranty period. At that time I'll probably go Wix filters and Amsoil/Bobzoil. Oh, BTW the 505.01 is a 5w-40 full synthetic. Thanks, Gary.

 

[bigspoke]

The Motul dealer is Bobby Archer Motorsports located in Texas. Email is [email protected] and website is bobbyarchermotorsports.com phone # 817-877-1772. I have no affiliation with them. They give 10% discount on case orders. This is a great alternative to the Castrol option. I bought enough oil to get me to my 40k service. Thats 2 years away and surely Amsoil will have something for the 04 TDI by then. Hope this info helps. Ask for Forest, he was great!

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andy H:
Ken2 - I wouldn't recommend either of these oils for use in the new TDI. One of them misses the mark on two counts, the other on one. VW has come out very strongly that warranty issues will appear if 505.01 oil isn't used; which has prompted a lawsuite from the lube change industry on Mag-Moss grounds. This is one lube spec that I'd follow to the letter until the dust clears.

---

Interesting for a couple reasons. First, VW is probably setting themselves up for a loss on this one. Under M-M, the mfr has to prove that the use of a certain oil CAUSED the problem sought to be repaired under warranty. So up front "we won't cover if you don't use this oil" declarations are necessarily a bit hard to support.

Second, the "discovery" process (rule-prescribed information exchange) in litigation will smoke out the details of why VW insists use of this oil is mandatory. So, if for example, their position is that Special Widget X will fail without Oil A, then they will have to divulge WHY they think so. Once this cat gets flushed out of the bag, the Amsoils of the world can set about adjusting their formulae to ensure protection of Special Widget X (or confirming that existing oils will do fine, as I suspect is the case...).

They can only play this game so long. Maybe this is why VW moves the target so often. . .

 

[TooSlick]

There is no such thing as an explicit VW 505.01 spec, that requires controlled testing in a PD engine....

A VW 505.01 oil is any SAE 5w-40 that meets:

API,SJ/CF
ACEA, A3/B3
VW 500.00
VW 505.00

Of note, the VW 505.01 oils I've seen don't even meet ACEA "B4", which was developed specifically for TDI diesels. That really makes me wonder how robust the 505.01 formulation even are? I actually think the 505.01 oils don't have enough detergency to meet the B4 requirements for piston deposits.

The new VW/Audi gas engines also can use VW 505.01 oils. I suspect VW 505.01 is merely an attempt to consolidate the numerous VW, gas/diesel lube specs and simplify things for their dealers....

 

[Pablo]

So why would Amsoil so boldly say (to me) that AFL doesn't meet 505.01?

 

[TooSlick]

Amsoils' Tech Services department has to go with the assumption that the VW 505.01 spec requires engine sequence testing in a PD engine, or that there are some other unique requirements they are not aware of.
Any other position wouldn't be responsible ....

I have concluded, based on the research and VOA's I've done on VW 505.01 oils, that there is nothing unique about them, except for reduced additive levels. I still contend that if you meet all six of the specs I've listed above, you have a Vw 505.01 formulation.

I cannot officially recommend using this Amsoil 5w-40 in a Volkswagon PD engine, but I believe that will change in the next year or so....

Ted

 

[sciroccoGTX16V]

I got a case of Motul for my 04 TDI. That oil is a blend, not fully synthetic. If i were to take a guess, everything from Delvac 1300, Rotella T and Delvac-1 would surpass the 505.01 rating. BTW, the Motul is only rated CF. My manual doesn't even say or warn about only using the specific oil. As soon as I am done with the case , it's delvac-1 and if something happens all I have to do is point at the manual. The PD engines need zero cam wear since the injectors are driven by the cam. If a synthetic blend like Motul meets that, Delvac-1 is probably better. I was in europe last month and every oil outhere meets 505.01

 

[nortones2]

Scirocco: I think you are mistaken. 505.01 is not a standard which all European oils meet. ALL of the makers over here have produced/labelled a bespoke oil for 505.01, SFAIK. What baffles me slightly re TooSlick's view, is that it would surely be a simple matter in Europe, where there are many PD engines sold, and many oils to suit, to rebadge to meet the required PD spec? That no-one has, indicates either that VW has them by the tender parts, or that there might be something in the 505.01 blend which VW specifically require.

 

[bigspoke]

How well would you expect the Motul 505.01 Spec oil to hold up to the Castrol Synthetic (and I use that term loosely) that is 505.01? Just wondering if I'll have to shorten my change interval at all. I do see some lengthy runs on Motul oils, but don't know how this stuff will work out. Any input on this matter??? I plan on an analysis at 10K when my 1st change of the Motul will have 5k on it at that time. Bigspoke.

 

[Andy H]

Bigspoke - Impex has Motul 505.01 in 5 liter jugs for $27 per. Part number 505.01.

 

[Andy H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andy H:
...This is one lube spec that I'd follow to the letter until the dust clears...

---

After more thought on this, I think my position needs a bit of clarification. I ment this recommendation completely from a 'bureaucratic'/'political' point of view and not a product quality standpoint. I'd personally wait until things settled down before jumping in to force VW's hand on the 505.01 spec/pseudo-spec.

As some of you know, I'm happily using products that are 'only' 'recommended' for my particular application...