VW manual tranny O2J factory fill at 38,000 mi

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Messages
805
Location
Earth
 -


I found this report at the VW vortex forums, so it's someone elses car.

The factory fluid sheared to a 10w in 38,000 miles.
shocked.gif
And iron wear is pretty darn high. VW owners with manual trannys should take notice.

I think whatever VW is putting in at the factory is not a premium oil. The additive pack looks incredibly weak for a gear oil. I really have to wonder if VW is using the OEM G50 synthetic at the factory.
rolleyes.gif
Whatever the case, this oil is totally shot. This report is proof positive that the VW recommended lifetime fill is a bunch of baloney.
 
I don't believe this.

Are you sure 75W90 was factory fill? That add pack looks like one from an ATF. Or, did the samples get mixed up?
 
Typed in numbers just in case photo disappears.
code:

Aluminum 6

Chromium 2

Iron 348

Copper 31

Lead 2

Tin 0

Molybdenum 4

Nickel 4

Manganese 14

Silver 0

Titanium 0

Potassium 0

Boron 0

Silicon 6

Sodium 0

Calcium 15

Magnesium 4

Phosphorus 539

Zinc 42

Barium 28

SUS viscosity 44.6 @ 100C

Flashpoint 435

Water 0.0

Insolubles 0.7


 
The poster mentioned that he refilled with Redline MT-90 (75w-90), so he does indeed have a manual tranny. And he did also specify his fluid was factory fill in his O2J tranny at 38,000 miles. I guess it is possible Blackstone mixed things up, but it's beyond my control since this is not my report.
 
I'd believe that the factory fill is super thin. Changing to a thin weight 75w90 felt a lot thicker and comparing the two, the factory fill is very watery.

It is also not G50 but G52.

It also looked like crap when I took it out of my 2006 A3 @ 2500 miles.

Dave
 
The signature indeed looks more like an ATF than a 75W90 gear lube.

The poster or someone must have refilled at some time with an ATF.

The fluid is definately too thin for the tranny.
 
I don't think the owner refilled with ATF.

The OE fluid really is very thin. From the comparisons glxpassat made with Motul Gear 300, the OE fluid was found to be noticably thinner than the Motul, which has a very low pour pour point and lower viscosity than most @ 40C.

Dave
 
V@100c of the factory fill (G52) in my 2004 Golf TDI 5-speed after 43,000 miles was 6.4.

The CAT lab ran the viscosity test twice because I listed the oil as being a 75w-90 - which G52 clearly is not.

I had the lab perform a VOA on the Motul Gear 300 I put in and its V@100c = 14.0.

My thinking was that either the OEM oil sheared way down OR the OEM fluid started out much lighter than the 75w-90 oils that many of us are commonly replacing G52 with.

So, I went to the dealer this morning, bought a liter of G52, then drove to my local CAT fluid analysis lab and watched as he tested its viscosity right in front of me.

The result: VOA viscosity of G52 = 6.3

Viscosity Comparison @ 100 C

10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90

6.3 = OEM G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601)

OEM G52 did not shear down at all in 43,000 miles of use:

V@100c: New G52 = 6.3, G52 after 43,000 miles = 6.4

Additionally, in these crazy unseasonably warm temps the Motul Gear 300 shifts fine - but early yesterday morning when temps were in the mid 40s - the first few shifts with Motul Gear 300 were noticably more effortful than the G52 ever was - even at below 0 temps.

Point being that even though Motul Gear 300 has an outstandingly low pour point (flows to -60)...

**the 75-90 viscosity of common gear / manual transmission oils is IMO not suitable for use in VW transmissions where G52 is specified.**
 
So, G52 is a ATF-like thin gear oil like what many MFG's are switching to for less protection and more MPG
grin.gif

G50 is the normal 90wt gear oil fluid
dunno.gif


So, with your VOA knowledge, I would be quick to dump out that overly thick gear oil. Use one of the thinner MTF or MTLs, which still might be a little thick but should shift easier then a 90wt.

Or, drive 40k miles, UOA, and compare wear.
 
quote:

Originally posted by unDummy:
So, G52 is a ATF-like thin gear oil like what many MFG's are switching to for less protection and more MPG
grin.gif

G50 is the normal 90wt gear oil fluid
dunno.gif


So, with your VOA knowledge, I would be quick to dump out that overly thick gear oil. Use one of the thinner MTF or MTLs, which still might be a little thick but should shift easier then a 90wt.

Or, drive 40k miles, UOA, and compare wear.


Find a super thin oil that is GL4/GL5 rated.

Dave
 
quote:

Find a super thin oil that is GL4/GL5 rated.

1) Specialty Formulations MTFGlide
2) Royal Purple Synchromax (unsure of rating)

Redline's D4 ATF does carry a GL-4 rating, however, I doubt it provides the same level of anti-wear protection as a Manual Transmission Lubricant.

Though thicker, Redline MTL (10cst) should work in this transmission. Molakule stated that the G52 is too thin for this transmission for optimal wear protection, so the slightly thicker Redline MTL, combined with its higher level of anti-wear additives, would be my choice.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Michael Wan:

quote:

Find a super thin oil that is GL4/GL5 rated.

1) Specialty Formulations MTFGlide
2) Royal Purple Synchromax (unsure of rating)

Redline's D4 ATF does carry a GL-4 rating, however, I doubt it provides the same level of anti-wear protection as a Manual Transmission Lubricant.

Though thicker, Redline MTL (10cst) should work in this transmission. Molakule stated that the G52 is too thin for this transmission for optimal wear protection, so the slightly thicker Redline MTL, combined with its higher level of anti-wear additives, would be my choice.


Yes but you're forgetting that GL4/5 aka GL4+ is different from regular GL-4. Redline doesn't make anything that will work with a GL4/5 rating for vws.

I tried SF MTL-R. Pretty horrible cold shifting. Didn't bother trying MTL-P. Motul Gear 300 has a pretty low pour point and @ 40C the viscosity is 58 IIRC. The upper number doesn't really matter. I have no issues shifting when the gearbox is warmed up.

Dave
 
OK, I think ya'll are refering to and tested the WRONG G52!

VW's part numbers that I'm aware of that begin with G052 -

Synthetic 75w-90 Manual trans gear oil - G052911 (A1 or A2, container size). This is what I compared the Motul 300 to and what I replaced in my tranny. My stock fluid looked great after 22k miles.

ATF - G052162A2

Differential fluid for the Auto Trans - 75W-90 G052145S2

I have not heard of G052726A2 before and it may not be a 90w. BUT, in a tranny with a transverse mounted engine like in an A3, there is no hypoid gear to drive the wheels so there is probably no need for a 90w or GL-4/5 rated lube in the tranny.
 
quote:

Originally posted by glxpassat:
I have not heard of G052726A2 before and it may not be a 90w. BUT, in a tranny with a transverse mounted engine like in an A3, there is no hypoid gear to drive the wheels so there is probably no need for a 90w or GL-4/5 rated lube in the tranny.

The A3 does have a hypoid gear transmission.

Dave
 
quote:

Originally posted by glxpassat:
Dave,

Does the A3 have a transverse engine layout? If so how would it use a hypoid gear? Maybe I'm wrong and it's longitudinal.

Tim


It is transverse, but on the factory PDF it states that it is a hypoid gear transmission.

Who knows . . . maybe because it has two final drives?

Dave
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top