VW manual tranny O2J factory fill at 38,000 mi

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 - I found this report at the VW vortex forums, so it's someone elses car. The factory fluid sheared to a 10w in 38,000 miles. [Eek!] And iron wear is pretty darn high. VW owners with manual trannys should take notice. I think whatever VW is putting in at the factory is not a premium oil. The additive pack looks incredibly weak for a gear oil. I really have to wonder if VW is using the OEM G50 synthetic at the factory. [Roll Eyes] Whatever the case, this oil is totally shot. This report is proof positive that the VW recommended lifetime fill is a bunch of baloney.
 
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23,898
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CA
I don't believe this. Are you sure 75W90 was factory fill? That add pack looks like one from an ATF. Or, did the samples get mixed up?
 

Bobert

Thread starter
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805
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Earth
Typed in numbers just in case photo disappears.
code:
Aluminum       6
Chromium       2
Iron           348
Copper         31
Lead           2
Tin            0 
Molybdenum     4
Nickel         4
Manganese      14
Silver         0
Titanium       0
Potassium      0
Boron          0
Silicon        6
Sodium         0
Calcium        15
Magnesium      4
Phosphorus     539
Zinc           42
Barium         28
SUS viscosity  44.6 @ 100C
Flashpoint     435
Water          0.0
Insolubles     0.7

 

Bobert

Thread starter
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The poster mentioned that he refilled with Redline MT-90 (75w-90), so he does indeed have a manual tranny. And he did also specify his fluid was <b>factory fill</b> in his O2J tranny at 38,000 miles. I guess it is possible Blackstone mixed things up, but it's beyond my control since this is not my report.
 
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144
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ITH NY
I'd believe that the factory fill is super thin. Changing to a thin weight 75w90 felt a lot thicker and comparing the two, the factory fill is very watery. It is also not G50 but G52. It also looked like crap when I took it out of my 2006 A3 @ 2500 miles. Dave
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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The signature indeed looks more like an ATF than a 75W90 gear lube. The poster or someone must have refilled at some time with an ATF. The fluid is definately too thin for the tranny.
 
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144
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ITH NY
I don't think the owner refilled with ATF. The OE fluid really is very thin. From the comparisons glxpassat made with Motul Gear 300, the OE fluid was found to be noticably thinner than the Motul, which has a very low pour pour point and lower viscosity than most @ 40C. Dave
 
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Roanoke, VA
[email protected] of the factory fill (G52) in my 2004 Golf TDI 5-speed after 43,000 miles was 6.4. The CAT lab ran the viscosity test twice because I listed the oil as being a 75w-90 - which G52 clearly is not. I had the lab perform a VOA on the Motul Gear 300 I put in and its [email protected] = 14.0. My thinking was that either the OEM oil sheared way down OR the OEM fluid started out much lighter than the 75w-90 oils that many of us are commonly replacing G52 with. So, I went to the dealer this morning, bought a liter of G52, then drove to my local CAT fluid analysis lab and watched as he tested its viscosity right in front of me. The result: VOA viscosity of G52 = 6.3 Viscosity Comparison @ 100 C 10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90 15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90 15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90 16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 6.3 = OEM G52 (part numbers G052726A2 / G05272601) OEM G52 did not shear down at all in 43,000 miles of use: [email protected]: New G52 = 6.3, G52 after 43,000 miles = 6.4 Additionally, in these crazy unseasonably warm temps the Motul Gear 300 shifts fine - but early yesterday morning when temps were in the mid 40s - the first few shifts with Motul Gear 300 were noticably more effortful than the G52 ever was - even at below 0 temps. Point being that even though Motul Gear 300 has an outstandingly low pour point (flows to -60)... **the 75-90 viscosity of common gear / manual transmission oils is IMO not suitable for use in VW transmissions where G52 is specified.**
 
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ITH NY
G52 obviously isn't very good on the transmission in terms of wear. <----likes the Motul and will be sticking with it, but I can understand if someone wanted something thinner for cold temps. Dave
 
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So, G52 is a ATF-like thin gear oil like what many MFG's are switching to for less protection and more MPG [Big Grin] G50 is the normal 90wt gear oil fluid [I dont know] So, with your VOA knowledge, I would be quick to dump out that overly thick gear oil. Use one of the thinner MTF or MTLs, which still might be a little thick but should shift easier then a 90wt. Or, drive 40k miles, UOA, and compare wear.
 
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ITH NY
quote:
Originally posted by unDummy: So, G52 is a ATF-like thin gear oil like what many MFG's are switching to for less protection and more MPG [Big Grin] G50 is the normal 90wt gear oil fluid [I dont know] So, with your VOA knowledge, I would be quick to dump out that overly thick gear oil. Use one of the thinner MTF or MTLs, which still might be a little thick but should shift easier then a 90wt. Or, drive 40k miles, UOA, and compare wear.
Find a super thin oil that is GL4/GL5 rated. Dave
 
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CA
quote:
Find a super thin oil that is GL4/GL5 rated.
1) Specialty Formulations MTFGlide 2) Royal Purple Synchromax (unsure of rating) Redline's D4 ATF does carry a GL-4 rating, however, I doubt it provides the same level of anti-wear protection as a Manual Transmission Lubricant. Though thicker, Redline MTL (10cst) should work in this transmission. Molakule stated that the G52 is too thin for this transmission for optimal wear protection, so the slightly thicker Redline MTL, combined with its higher level of anti-wear additives, would be my choice.
 
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ITH NY
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Wan:
quote:
Find a super thin oil that is GL4/GL5 rated.
1) Specialty Formulations MTFGlide 2) Royal Purple Synchromax (unsure of rating) Redline's D4 ATF does carry a GL-4 rating, however, I doubt it provides the same level of anti-wear protection as a Manual Transmission Lubricant. Though thicker, Redline MTL (10cst) should work in this transmission. Molakule stated that the G52 is too thin for this transmission for optimal wear protection, so the slightly thicker Redline MTL, combined with its higher level of anti-wear additives, would be my choice.

Yes but you're forgetting that GL4/5 aka GL4+ is different from regular GL-4. Redline doesn't make anything that will work with a GL4/5 rating for vws. I tried SF MTL-R. Pretty horrible cold shifting. Didn't bother trying MTL-P. Motul Gear 300 has a pretty low pour point and @ 40C the viscosity is 58 IIRC. The upper number doesn't really matter. I have no issues shifting when the gearbox is warmed up. Dave
 
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1,116
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Huntsville, AL
OK, I think ya'll are refering to and tested the WRONG G52! VW's part numbers that I'm aware of that begin with G052 - Synthetic 75w-90 Manual trans gear oil - G052911 (A1 or A2, container size). This is what I compared the Motul 300 to and what I replaced in my tranny. My stock fluid looked great after 22k miles. ATF - G052162A2 Differential fluid for the Auto Trans - 75W-90 G052145S2 I have not heard of G052726A2 before and it may not be a 90w. BUT, in a tranny with a transverse mounted engine like in an A3, there is no hypoid gear to drive the wheels so there is probably no need for a 90w or GL-4/5 rated lube in the tranny.
 
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144
Location
ITH NY
quote:
Originally posted by glxpassat: I have not heard of G052726A2 before and it may not be a 90w. BUT, in a tranny with a transverse mounted engine like in an A3, there is no hypoid gear to drive the wheels so there is probably no need for a 90w or GL-4/5 rated lube in the tranny.
The A3 does have a hypoid gear transmission. Dave
 
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144
Location
ITH NY
quote:
Originally posted by glxpassat: Dave, Does the A3 have a transverse engine layout? If so how would it use a hypoid gear? Maybe I'm wrong and it's longitudinal. Tim
It is transverse, but on the factory PDF it states that it is a hypoid gear transmission. Who knows . . . maybe because it has two final drives? Dave
 
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