VW FF 5W-40/3,475 miles(6M)/10 GTI 2.0T

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Finklejag

Finklejag

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Nov 23, 2003
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Location
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2010 VW GTI 2.0T

Miles on oil: 3,475
Miles on engine: 3,475
Oil filter: OEM
90% city
10% highway

I will be doing 6 month OCI's on this car. I drive mostly city. I live 4.2 miles from work. I take all city streets. The car won't even get up to operating temparture. Seeing this engine is direct injection also. I will probably have fuel dilution problem. I poured in Redline 5W-40 for this OCI.

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Impressive flash point for the fuel content. Impressive fuel content for the service and engine design.

Perhaps all direct injection engines are not created equal.
 
Nice job of starting trending early! This car should last a long time with this kind of attention to detail.

It's interesting that Manganese is lower than the FSI FF UOAs while fuel is 1% and FP is high. But that is comparing 2 different engines and FF no less so it's just curiosity and speculation for fun.

For fun, here are the averages for the 5 FF runs for the 2.0 FSI. Note that Manganese is much higher. Zinc, P, and Ca numbers are different also. So looks like a different FF than used in the 2.0 FSI (note that the The Zinc, Phos, and Calcium numbers were all very close between the 5 2.0 FF UOAS).

ffsnippet.jpg
 
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FYI I noticed a huge difference in oil condition when running all short trips in the winter vs. mixed driving on my 2.0 FSI. So the short trips/warm up could be a big factor here. I have a new wolverine oil heater you can have if you want it. I bought for my car but never installed and I don't need it. Don't know if it would make a diff. or not but in theory it should as oil would be warmed up prior to starting.
 
Thanks for the offer. I will see if the Redline in the TSI will help the fuel.

I chickened out using the Pento Super 5W-30 504/507 oil. After reading more into the BMW and MB warnings against using LL oils in the US. With also seeing the really weak additves. I went the Redline route. My friend put the Pento in his 99.5 2.slow Golf.
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Yea that Pento looked like a really "light" oil in terms of additives. Possibly an ultra-emissions friendly oil for new TDI's etc. but possibly not a good fit for the TSI. The trend of lighter viscosity oils for CAFE and oils with less ZZDP etc. for emissions reasons may be fine for some applications but not for others. For the 2.0 FSI f.e, a stout oil with a stronger additive pack seems to be called for. My suspicion is that the TSI won't be quite as hard on oil as the FSI but we need UOAs to find out.
 
I have a 2010 Tiguan now.

I plan on GC, SynPower 20w-50/10w-30 mix and Mobil 1 Hi-Miles. I don't know the pluses and minuses of these oils, other than the M1 has high zink and the GC has some zink too. I doubt the cam follower is still an issue, but playing it safe with these oils.

4 month ocis come to only 3-4k for me.

I'll UOA the first run of GC.
 
Where would the copper be coming from? Turbo hardware?

Is a thicker oil called for? I see the adds look high, but is this oil more of a low saps 5w-30? I assume VW needs to FF the same oil speced for service and the same oil for mpg runs, but is it less than ideal?

I'm getting tempted to drain mine way early, at 1000 miles now and going into mid summer, I just might. I could maybe add some VSOT, but that's a lot of metals in there that should come out.

I've been hammering mine, past redline often.

Suggestions? I have some RP 15w-40 to go in.

I really can't think of any reason to leave the FF in except the cost of an extra fill of oil...nbd.
 
I could be wrong but most Euro apps like 100C CST of 3.5 or there about, hence the heavier oil.

AJ, since you have been pondering for a while Id suggest rinsing the FF with a dino 15w40 for about a month with 2 OCIs and go with the RP 15w40 until about November or AMB temps drop below 20F. Delvac is a good cheap WM option at 9.50/gal for the rinse.

This TSI may be a showing of VW/AUDI addressing the DI issues, only time will tell.
 
I thought about rinsing, I have a ton of Delo 30 here. I'm reusing the filter anyway and when you consider the sheer volume of oil coming out, I'll pretty much accomplish my mission of getting the load of metal out and getting some heavy oil in. It would be nice to rinse, but the leftover FF oil is not bad stuff.

I am doing all short ocis anyway, two 3 month runs (RP and QSS) until winter, a new filter w/GC and 4 months oci going from there. So no time really for extra flush runs, I would just run it a day or so anyway if I flushed.


After thinking about it, yeah, the oems are stuck with the thin low saps oil. I'm done, the RP 15w-40 is going in today.
 
I ended up flushing. I couldn't get the filter off and already had drained the oil. So, instead of pushing my car out of the way and running to the store for a cap wrench in the Astra, I just refilled it w/Delo 30 and drove.

The cap wrench worked nice, and the rinse oil came out grey and sparkly, just like the FF oil that was really grey and really sparkly.

fwiw, the engine ran nice and smooth on the Delo 30. I wouldn't have a problem running these engines on 15w-40 and 10w-30 HDEO.

So, the RP 15w-40 is in. I'm glad I changed it.
 
What about MY choice???

Sorry to threadjack. This is where I got to thinking about my situation. The FF UOA was very useful in determining what's going on with this engine/oil combo. I wanted to share my thoughts in case others read this with the same dilemma. I def recommend flushing, especially if going to a fancy oil for a long interval.

As smooth as the engine was with Delo 30, it is a little sluggish with the RP 15w-40. Maybe because it's a HD diesel oil w/o much friction modifiers. Still it's tolerable.

fwiw, I picked up some SynPower Racing 20w-50 to mix down with reg SynPower 10w-30...for next summer.
 
ffsnippet.jpg


How can TBN be at 3.8 for an average 3k run?

Were some reports lacking a TBN and the result got skewed?

Maybe it's just the low saps situation.
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Here are the numbers. Low SAPs could help explain the low TBN as could fuel dilution.

3807 miles TBN 2.6
5000 miles TBN 3.7
2208 miles TBN 5.2
2810 miles TBN No data
930 miles TBN No data
 
I have to correct myself, this UOA is not a low saps oil, whereas the averaged UOAs seems to be.

This one is Z 1200, P 829 and the average one is Z 817 and P 673.

That's a big difference. Syntec 5w-40 is only Z 1000 / P 1000, and Rotella tops out at Z 1200.

The low saps oils I can think of are more like Z 700 / P 600, iirc.

So, this FF oil seems to be "improved" over the others, if one can say that.

It makes me wary of low saps in this engine, if the FF is not one.
 
How do we know the FF was 5w-40 in this GTI? Looking at the viscosity, it could have been a thick Xw-30, too.

Not that it matters. I was just wondering.
 
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