VW directive: No more bulk oil

[rob-the-oil-nut]

Dunno how confidential this is, but a good source advised me that VW tested the first bit and the last bit of bulk oil coming out of a tanker that was dropping off bulk oil. The first bit was dark with additives that settled down, the last bit had insufficient additives. I know, not all additives settle, but VW was looking at premature engine failure and premature oil use (burning, smoking) and issued something to all its dealerships. All bulk oil ist verboten. The only way they can use bulk oil is in small tanks with a stirring mechanism going 24 X 7. Or, a small tank that gets a gallon added, from gallon (or smaller) containers, every time a gallon goes out. So they'd stock a thousand bottles of 4.5 quarts or whatever, and every time they did an oil change on a car, they'd pour more into the holding tank.
Furthur, another car company (I might say which via PM, but saying which wouldn't be too good for my source...but it's not a German company) got ahold of this memo and is looking at dictating the same rules to all of its dealerships.
So it seems a thorough study shows bulk oil can be awful for a car.
Comments? Anyone hear anything similar?
THANKS!
Rob, the oil nut

 

[Shannow]

rob, it sort of makes some sense, seeing the stuff in the bottom of oil bottles.

How do the oil companies fill the bottles ?

Is a batch blended and stored for a day or two before bottling, or is it a continuous process ?

 

[Alan]

I wonder how many times VW dealers have pumped in xxW30 dino and charged for a 502.0 oil for the recommended 10K OCI?

 

[BigDenCCMD]

I remember hearing this about Iffy Lube. I've never been to one but I thought they now use quart bottles.

 

[Johnny]

Well it depends on the quality control standards that are put in place and if those standards are followed. From a packaging plant, all oils come from the same place. But I can only speak for the way we do things. I will use Pennzoil 5W30 as an example. It's usually blended at a minimum 10,000 gallons at a time. After it's blended we fill quart bottles, 5 quart bottles, 55 gallon drums, and fill tank trucks. Before the tank trucks are filled they are thouroughly inspected inside and out. The tanks have to be completely clean inside, the seals on the top caps have to be in working order. After the tanks are loaded the lids are closed and sealed. When that tanker gets to our distributor samples are taken before delivery and then a set of standards are taken before the truck is unloaded. From the field we inspect tanks on a daily basis. I personally take samples from a minimum of 10 customers per day to make sure what is in the tank meets our standards. Our technical department takes samples from our distributors tanks monthly for the same reason and their bulk handeling procedures are checked. In the past 5 years I have only found 3 accounts that did not meet our standards.

So it depends on the standards that are in place and if those standards are followed. A quick note on Jiffy Lube. Most associate Jiffy Lube with Pennzoil. That's not the case at all. Jiffy Lube is a brand name and a franchise name. There are a lot of Jiffy Lubes that do not have Pennzoil as their featured oil. You will mainly find this in Missouri, Minnesota, Nebraska, and New England. There are a few others out west as well.

What Alan said above is very true, but it was VW's fault, not the dealers. Times are changing. The large European dealers I sell to all sell oil that meets the mfg specs.

 

[Blue99]

Thanks for the info, Johnny!

Sounds like Pennzoil has a very strong QC program in place and this issue of additives settling out would be caught very quickly by the sampling programs.

Also a strong deterent to keep a dishonest lube franchise operator from sneaking SA oil into the bulk tank!

How many gallons, of say 5W-30, do these quick lubes typically have on hand, in their bulk tanks?

 

[Johnny]

Most tanks are from 300 to 500 gallons. There are a few of the larger volume centers that have 1,000 gallon tanks. They move enough volume that these tanks are being filled two to three times per week, so the oil is not just setting there.

 

[bulwnkl]

{Rant deleted before posting}

If the bulk oil their dealers are purchasing is of sufficiently low quality that the additives are settling out of solution/suspension, I wonder why they think that buying the same stuff in bottles will magically solve the problem? I suppose it could mitigate it some, but without more detailed information, that approach does not seem to me to address the issue.

I would find it terribly comical if the bulk oil they're having troubles with was some of the super-expensive, super-fancy European-brand stuff they want us to use so badly.

 

[haley10]

In modern formulations, what additives would simply fall out of suspension other than dyes?

I know the manufacturer's don't do factory fills with 1 qt. bottles.

This sounds like some sort of urban legend.

Any industry I ever worked for used Shell or Exxon/Mobil in large quantities with no problems and oil analysis on some machines regularly.

Proper handling would be a major concern or improper storage vessels, but I don't have a problem with bulk oil otherwise.

Heck, the elves ship GC in bulk and it gets bottled here.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

---

Most tanks are from 300 to 500 gallons. There are a few of the larger volume centers that have 1,000 gallon tanks. They move enough volume that these tanks are being filled two to three times per week, so the oil is not just setting there.

---

Johnny, is this the same for something like a higher end Euro dealer? One that perhaps handles MB, Audi, and perhaps VW? I mean are there conditions where a dealer has a bulk system due to economy/practicality ..but doesn't have substantial throughput to exchange their inventory with such frequency? The reasoning being ...if you're a dealer selling cars with 3000-7500 mile OCIs ...as opposed to a dealer, of the same size and client base sizewise, yet sell cars that spec 10,000-15,000 OCIs ..this surely would tend to alter the throughput of the bulk oil.

Perhaps a bulk system that provided adaquate throughput 10-15 years ago ..now has dwell time that is substantially longer as OCI's have evolved.

 

[John K]

Some years back GM started selling their own oil because of QC concerns, so they would test the oil before selling it, and I remember the first Consumer Reports test mentioned finding QC problems, pour points varied from batch to batch, wrong viscosity, etc. When I was working in the utility industry many companies test turbine oils before unloading, and also tested drums. Not unheard of to find mislabeled oils. I remember years ago finding black stuff in the bottom of the white Castrol bottles. The oil industry supposedly pumps different oils in the same pipeline and it is easy to get mixed samples or wrong batches.

 

[Johnny]

Gary Allen: You are correct. There are many dealers that have tanks that might take weeks or months to empty. With the Euro dealers I work with I try my best to match their tank size with their volume usage. I would rather see multiple deliveries instead of one large delivery every two or three months. An example would be Wausau Imports here in Wausau. They are a VW, Audi, SAAB, Nissan dealer. Their largest volume oil is Pennzoil 5W30 that they use mainly in the Nissans, except for the ones with turbos. The turbo Nissans and the Euro cars all get either 5W30 or 5W40 Pennzoil synthetic Euro oils and the VW diesels get the Quaker 505.01 diesel oil. The bulk tank for the regular oil is a 375 gallon tank. The two bulk tanks for the 5W30 and 5W40 Euro synthetics is 100 gallons each. The 505.01 oil is still poured from bottles but we are looking at putting in a 75 gallon tank for that product.

Fifteen years ago the way to do business was to put in as large a tank as possible and fill it up. IMHO that's a bad way to do business.

John K: To bad GM still does not have this program. All they do now is push paper. The oil is handled by someone else.