VW dealership brainless monkeys
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Originally Posted By: rshunter
Imagine a world where Volkswagens were sold through the highly regarded Saturn dealer network...
You mean like the customer would actually get great overall customer oriented service, competent techs that actually fix the problem and not break other things in the process of fixing the original problem, professional service management and writers, and a reasonable price for after warranty work and parts.?!!!????
I like that possibility, I wish it were going to happen!!!!!!!
Haha, now that would be the holy grail of Volkswagendom.
I actually thought that Opel might continue to supply Saturn dealers when they spin off from GM.
Imagine a world where Volkswagens were sold through the highly regarded Saturn dealer network...
You mean like the customer would actually get great overall customer oriented service, competent techs that actually fix the problem and not break other things in the process of fixing the original problem, professional service management and writers, and a reasonable price for after warranty work and parts.?!!!????
I like that possibility, I wish it were going to happen!!!!!!!
Haha, now that would be the holy grail of Volkswagendom.
I actually thought that Opel might continue to supply Saturn dealers when they spin off from GM.
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I hate VW dealers. EGR cooler recall? They managed to fudge that one up pretty good on me. The "25 year master diesel tech" Just couldnt understand why I was complaning about hack job he did!
"thats just the EGR valve making noise opening and closing"
"thats just the EGR valve making noise opening and closing"
Please don't call them dealership brainless monkeys.
The correct term is "Shop Simians.
The monkeys work at the parts counter and are known as "Counter Monkeys". Not to be confused with "Trunk Monkeys", which are actually useful.
The correct term is "Shop Simians.
The monkeys work at the parts counter and are known as "Counter Monkeys". Not to be confused with "Trunk Monkeys", which are actually useful.
The computer help desk equivalents are "ping monkeys".
Originally Posted By: brianl703
The computer help desk equivalents are "ping monkeys".
Yours know how to ping? You're a lucky guy.
The computer help desk equivalents are "ping monkeys".
Yours know how to ping? You're a lucky guy.
Quote:
Don't even get me started on VWoA and US VW dealerships. Telling the truth about VWoA distributor and dealer incompentence resulted in me being banned from http://www.vwvortex.com I was known as Golf Strom and about several hundred other screen names as well due to repeated banning for nothing other than telling the truth about many things.
VW products in general are very very good, and if maintained in a reasonable manner are about as reliable as the typical Honda or Toyota. The real problem lies with VWoA the distributor and its dealer network. For decades they have destroyed the VW name and heritage with terrible choice or lack of choice of models, equipment, and a total lack of regard for the customers.
The US dealer network may be the worst VW network in the developed world. Tech incompetence followed by tech incompetence, followed by surly and or rude service writers and managers, and outrageous prices for non warranty service.
If VW AG was smart they would disband the current organization and start rebuiilding it from the grould up with all new people. Heck there are many folks on VWVortex that would be way more effective in running a VW organization compared to the idiots that have run it for the past 30 years.
VWoA is a shambles.
The truth hurts.
I have not read a more accurate post on the sad shape of VWoA. I'm able to feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads due to the lack of reasonable service they provide. I have seen cars come out of warranty work worse off then when they went in, items broken that were not broke in the first place. And don't even think about taking one in out of warranty without getting corporate involved.... They have a great product being ruined by a group of incompetent people selling & servicing it.
Don't even get me started on VWoA and US VW dealerships. Telling the truth about VWoA distributor and dealer incompentence resulted in me being banned from http://www.vwvortex.com I was known as Golf Strom and about several hundred other screen names as well due to repeated banning for nothing other than telling the truth about many things.
VW products in general are very very good, and if maintained in a reasonable manner are about as reliable as the typical Honda or Toyota. The real problem lies with VWoA the distributor and its dealer network. For decades they have destroyed the VW name and heritage with terrible choice or lack of choice of models, equipment, and a total lack of regard for the customers.
The US dealer network may be the worst VW network in the developed world. Tech incompetence followed by tech incompetence, followed by surly and or rude service writers and managers, and outrageous prices for non warranty service.
If VW AG was smart they would disband the current organization and start rebuiilding it from the grould up with all new people. Heck there are many folks on VWVortex that would be way more effective in running a VW organization compared to the idiots that have run it for the past 30 years.
VWoA is a shambles.
Originally Posted By: ourfamo4
Quote:
Don't even get me started on VWoA and US VW dealerships. Telling the truth about VWoA distributor and dealer incompentence resulted in me being banned from http://www.vwvortex.com I was known as Golf Strom and about several hundred other screen names as well due to repeated banning for nothing other than telling the truth about many things.
VW products in general are very very good, and if maintained in a reasonable manner are about as reliable as the typical Honda or Toyota. The real problem lies with VWoA the distributor and its dealer network. For decades they have destroyed the VW name and heritage with terrible choice or lack of choice of models, equipment, and a total lack of regard for the customers.
The US dealer network may be the worst VW network in the developed world. Tech incompetence followed by tech incompetence, followed by surly and or rude service writers and managers, and outrageous prices for non warranty service.
If VW AG was smart they would disband the current organization and start rebuiilding it from the grould up with all new people. Heck there are many folks on VWVortex that would be way more effective in running a VW organization compared to the idiots that have run it for the past 30 years.
VWoA is a shambles.
The truth hurts.
I have not read a more accurate post on the sad shape of VWoA. I'm able to feed my kids and keep a roof over their heads due to the lack of reasonable service they provide. I have seen cars come out of warranty work worse off then when they went in, items broken that were not broke in the first place. And don't even think about taking one in out of warranty without getting corporate involved.... They have a great product being ruined by a group of incompetent people selling & servicing it.
I totally agree. I will not take my GTI to the dealer unless there is no other choice. It is better to educate yourself and do it yourself or take it to a good indy mechanic that actually knows the cars.
Everytime I talk to a vw service dept. I have to spend at least half an hour trying to educate them (on a car for which they should have superior knowledge) just to get to the point to where I can actually talk to them about the subject at hand.
In contrast, when I go to an Indy mechanic I usually learn something and they try to learn about things they don't already know. A dealer is usually afraid to admit any ignorance at all and seems to be "above" any other sources of information, saying "don't believe what you hear on the internet". That leaves it to "people on the internet" to find solutions for problems that VW engineers/designers admit to in their own patent (I'm talking about the pcv system on the DI engines now) but their own dealers don't even know about (or won't acknowledge).
This 2.0FSI is an unbelievable engine and runs reliably at greater than 150% of it's designed hp. I haven't seen a better engine in terms of performance/efficiency etc. but it does have weak spots that should be addressed proactively like the cam follower and PCV. Dealers should be the one's helping customers to be proactive, instead they hide their head in the sand. Off soapbox now...
Quote:
Don't even get me started on VWoA and US VW dealerships. Telling the truth about VWoA distributor and dealer incompentence resulted in me being banned from http://www.vwvortex.com I was known as Golf Strom and about several hundred other screen names as well due to repeated banning for nothing other than telling the truth about many things.
VW products in general are very very good, and if maintained in a reasonable manner are about as reliable as the typical Honda or Toyota. The real problem lies with VWoA the distributor and its dealer network. For decades they have destroyed the VW name and heritage with terrible choice or lack of choice of models, equipment, and a total lack of regard for the customers.
The US dealer network may be the worst VW network in the developed world. Tech incompetence followed by tech incompetence, followed by surly and or rude service writers and managers, and outrageous prices for non warranty service.
If VW AG was smart they would disband the current organization and start rebuiilding it from the grould up with all new people. Heck there are many folks on VWVortex that would be way more effective in running a VW organization compared to the idiots that have run it for the past 30 years.
VWoA is a shambles.
I totally agree. I will not take my GTI to the dealer unless there is no other choice. It is better to educate yourself and do it yourself or take it to a good indy mechanic that actually knows the cars.
Everytime I talk to a vw service dept. I have to spend at least half an hour trying to educate them (on a car for which they should have superior knowledge) just to get to the point to where I can actually talk to them about the subject at hand.
In contrast, when I go to an Indy mechanic I usually learn something and they try to learn about things they don't already know. A dealer is usually afraid to admit any ignorance at all and seems to be "above" any other sources of information, saying "don't believe what you hear on the internet". That leaves it to "people on the internet" to find solutions for problems that VW engineers/designers admit to in their own patent (I'm talking about the pcv system on the DI engines now) but their own dealers don't even know about (or won't acknowledge).
This 2.0FSI is an unbelievable engine and runs reliably at greater than 150% of it's designed hp. I haven't seen a better engine in terms of performance/efficiency etc. but it does have weak spots that should be addressed proactively like the cam follower and PCV. Dealers should be the one's helping customers to be proactive, instead they hide their head in the sand. Off soapbox now...
Originally Posted By: XS650
Yours know how to ping? You're a lucky guy.
Not really..if the ping fails they blame it on the firewall.
Yours know how to ping? You're a lucky guy.
Not really..if the ping fails they blame it on the firewall.
Originally Posted By: ourfamo4
They have a great product being ruined by a group of incompetent people selling & servicing it.
Hey make sure you head on over to vwvortex.com register there, head to http://www.thecarlounge.com and post about what
"golf strom" had to say concerning VWoA and their dunderheaded incompentence as distributor in the USA for decades. I bet you bottom dollar they will instantly ban your account due to your truthfulness!!!!
The problem starts at the top. Alot of the problems you see at the dealer level are a result of a bunch of drooling nit wits at the VWoA Herdon, VA headquarters (formally Auburn Hills , MI) and their incompetent decisions. From product selection, to dealer relations to tech training, and marketing can be blamed on VWoA.
VWoA has been an ongoing disaster for literally over thirty years, and it doesn't look like it is going to get much better.
I have to shudder at the childlike nonsense that now qualifies as tv ad spots with this stupid talking old beetle, and hippie bus. VWoA claim they want to be a major player in the US market, yet to look at these commercials it make you think VWs are a absolute joke, these ads aren't funny they are stupid.
I'm not saying that VW shouldn't market to teenagers and alternative lifestyle customers, problem is they don't try and reach anyone else. You can't survive with 1% of the US market for ever.
They have a great product being ruined by a group of incompetent people selling & servicing it.
Hey make sure you head on over to vwvortex.com register there, head to http://www.thecarlounge.com and post about what
"golf strom" had to say concerning VWoA and their dunderheaded incompentence as distributor in the USA for decades. I bet you bottom dollar they will instantly ban your account due to your truthfulness!!!!
The problem starts at the top. Alot of the problems you see at the dealer level are a result of a bunch of drooling nit wits at the VWoA Herdon, VA headquarters (formally Auburn Hills , MI) and their incompetent decisions. From product selection, to dealer relations to tech training, and marketing can be blamed on VWoA.
VWoA has been an ongoing disaster for literally over thirty years, and it doesn't look like it is going to get much better.
I have to shudder at the childlike nonsense that now qualifies as tv ad spots with this stupid talking old beetle, and hippie bus. VWoA claim they want to be a major player in the US market, yet to look at these commercials it make you think VWs are a absolute joke, these ads aren't funny they are stupid.
I'm not saying that VW shouldn't market to teenagers and alternative lifestyle customers, problem is they don't try and reach anyone else. You can't survive with 1% of the US market for ever.
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Originally Posted By: blaze1
being familiar with these cars and these filters,I'm going to say the failure was due to overtightening of the reusable filter canister it self. They are plastic and if the tech was new he might have tried to tighten it like a conventional filter.
Even hand tightening can break the canister on these cars.
VW Techs are notorious for over-tightening filters.
My other guess is they forgot to re-install the gasket. Unless you are familliar with cartridge set-ups, it is possible to forget.
It happened to me with my 1995 325i, thanks to PepBoys.
being familiar with these cars and these filters,I'm going to say the failure was due to overtightening of the reusable filter canister it self. They are plastic and if the tech was new he might have tried to tighten it like a conventional filter.
Even hand tightening can break the canister on these cars.
VW Techs are notorious for over-tightening filters.
My other guess is they forgot to re-install the gasket. Unless you are familliar with cartridge set-ups, it is possible to forget.
It happened to me with my 1995 325i, thanks to PepBoys.
You took a 325i to PepBoys?
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I wouldn't take my lawn mower to PepBoys, much less a Beemer.
In my town we had a VW service facility. I say had, because they just recently went out of business. It was actually a "near-new" used car dealer that was also a VW service facility because we don't have a VW dealer here. Well...
If my experience is any indication, the sentiment in this thread is true.
I took a car in, running terrible, (after lots of effort in trying to find the problem on my own), they said "you need a new MAF", even though I had already traded out the MAF. Guess how much for a new MAF? $330. About $170 for the part and rest to install it. Never mind that I could install it myself in less than 5 minutes.
So I pay the guy. It didn't fix the problem.
After lots of hours looking at it, we finally find that it's a split in a rubber hose, an intake vacuum problem! Should have been easy to diagnose by someone who has the equipment, but unfortunately they are too lazy to give an accurate diagnosis. But, after fixing it they didn't reset the car's computer. He fooled around with it for more hours... I insisted that he give me the car back NOW and get out of my life.
I took it home, reset the computer by disconnecting the battery for some time, brought it back up and it's been running GREAT ever since. I figure they were either totally incompetent, or they were trying to figure out how to zing me for more money.
If my experience is any indication, the sentiment in this thread is true.
I took a car in, running terrible, (after lots of effort in trying to find the problem on my own), they said "you need a new MAF", even though I had already traded out the MAF. Guess how much for a new MAF? $330. About $170 for the part and rest to install it. Never mind that I could install it myself in less than 5 minutes.
So I pay the guy. It didn't fix the problem.
After lots of hours looking at it, we finally find that it's a split in a rubber hose, an intake vacuum problem! Should have been easy to diagnose by someone who has the equipment, but unfortunately they are too lazy to give an accurate diagnosis. But, after fixing it they didn't reset the car's computer. He fooled around with it for more hours... I insisted that he give me the car back NOW and get out of my life.
I took it home, reset the computer by disconnecting the battery for some time, brought it back up and it's been running GREAT ever since. I figure they were either totally incompetent, or they were trying to figure out how to zing me for more money.
Yeah, at least I was getting an OC! This was about 15 years ago, fwiw. I thought it was maybe better than a DIY, because I did not have the facilities.
I got home from the OC, maybe 10-12 blocks, and as I pulled into the driveway, it dropped it's oily bounty. PB said to tow it in, but I just got a ride back from some oil, the original gasket they "found" and some kitty litter, then DIYed the fix.
I got home from the OC, maybe 10-12 blocks, and as I pulled into the driveway, it dropped it's oily bounty. PB said to tow it in, but I just got a ride back from some oil, the original gasket they "found" and some kitty litter, then DIYed the fix.
As my TDI gets closer to the magic 100K mileage number where I have to get the timing belt changed, I am wondering how to get it done. I know it is not safe to take it to the dealer where I bought the car. Another dealer north of me seems competent. Then there is the local shop that is very reasonable priced and has given me no issues over the last 20+ years with regard to quality of service.
The question is, would you take it the local small town shop or to the seemingly competent dealer?
I figure either way I probably want to buy OEM belts, but am willing to listen if others think that is not a good idea.
The question is, would you take it the local small town shop or to the seemingly competent dealer?
I figure either way I probably want to buy OEM belts, but am willing to listen if others think that is not a good idea.
Go with the local and as for the TB use Gates - every bit as good as OEM .
Originally Posted By: Boatowner
As my TDI gets closer to the magic 100K mileage number where I have to get the timing belt changed, I am wondering how to get it done. I know it is not safe to take it to the dealer where I bought the car. Another dealer north of me seems competent. Then there is the local shop that is very reasonable priced and has given me no issues over the last 20+ years with regard to quality of service.
The question is, would you take it the local small town shop or to the seemingly competent dealer?
I figure either way I probably want to buy OEM belts, but am willing to listen if others think that is not a good idea.
Go to http://www.tdiclub.com then to the TDI 101 forum. One of the sticky threads at the top is the "Recommended Mechanics" thread. Check out the shops or mechanics in Washington state -- some shops have multiple good recommendations, others have a mix of good and bad, but they are probably all better than what you can find on your own through hit or miss.
A place called ZahnTech in Redmond seems to have the very best reputation. There are also good mechanics in Vancouver BC and in Portland OR, if you do much traveling. If you are in Eastern Washington, your situation is more difficult; in this case I would recommend posting in the West Coast forum over at TDI Club for advice.
Lastly, with TDI engines you do not just change the timing belt and tensioner -- you also change the roller/idlers, water pump, serpentine belt, and a number of single-use bolts. Vendors like http://www.dieselgeek.com sell complete deluxe TB kits, with OE parts, for much less than would spend at a dealership or buying the parts individually online.
As my TDI gets closer to the magic 100K mileage number where I have to get the timing belt changed, I am wondering how to get it done. I know it is not safe to take it to the dealer where I bought the car. Another dealer north of me seems competent. Then there is the local shop that is very reasonable priced and has given me no issues over the last 20+ years with regard to quality of service.
The question is, would you take it the local small town shop or to the seemingly competent dealer?
I figure either way I probably want to buy OEM belts, but am willing to listen if others think that is not a good idea.
Go to http://www.tdiclub.com then to the TDI 101 forum. One of the sticky threads at the top is the "Recommended Mechanics" thread. Check out the shops or mechanics in Washington state -- some shops have multiple good recommendations, others have a mix of good and bad, but they are probably all better than what you can find on your own through hit or miss.
A place called ZahnTech in Redmond seems to have the very best reputation. There are also good mechanics in Vancouver BC and in Portland OR, if you do much traveling. If you are in Eastern Washington, your situation is more difficult; in this case I would recommend posting in the West Coast forum over at TDI Club for advice.
Lastly, with TDI engines you do not just change the timing belt and tensioner -- you also change the roller/idlers, water pump, serpentine belt, and a number of single-use bolts. Vendors like http://www.dieselgeek.com sell complete deluxe TB kits, with OE parts, for much less than would spend at a dealership or buying the parts individually online.
Originally Posted By: Boatowner
As my TDI gets closer to the magic 100K mileage number where I have to get the timing belt changed, I am wondering how to get it done. I know it is not safe to take it to the dealer where I bought the car. Another dealer north of me seems competent. Then there is the local shop that is very reasonable priced and has given me no issues over the last 20+ years with regard to quality of service.
The question is, would you take it the local small town shop or to the seemingly competent dealer?
I figure either way I probably want to buy OEM belts, but am willing to listen if others think that is not a good idea.
My opinion is that I would not take it to a dealer unless I had no other choice. The only exception I would make to that is if I had first hand knowledge of the dealer's technician working on my car as it relates to his knowledge and experience for my exact model car, engine, and transmission.
The same goes for the local shop actually. if you spend a couple minutes and talk to them and ask Q's like "how many timing belts (or 100k service, or whatever) have you done on a 2006 VW TDI (or whatever) so far?" and things like "Is there anything in particular I should watch for with this car/engine?" you'll find out real quick how experienced they are. This can also be done over the phone. I think the competent indy guys that specialize in VWs probably know those cars inside and out (but ask to make sure they do). As Tornado red said, the tdiclub list would be a good place to start. Then I would call and feel them out over the phone. Also, local european used car dealers often know who is good as they can't afford to mess around with incompetent technicians.
A trustworthy and knowledgeable indy mechanic is worth his weight in gold. A trustworthy and knowledgeable dealer mechanic is more rare than gold.
As my TDI gets closer to the magic 100K mileage number where I have to get the timing belt changed, I am wondering how to get it done. I know it is not safe to take it to the dealer where I bought the car. Another dealer north of me seems competent. Then there is the local shop that is very reasonable priced and has given me no issues over the last 20+ years with regard to quality of service.
The question is, would you take it the local small town shop or to the seemingly competent dealer?
I figure either way I probably want to buy OEM belts, but am willing to listen if others think that is not a good idea.
My opinion is that I would not take it to a dealer unless I had no other choice. The only exception I would make to that is if I had first hand knowledge of the dealer's technician working on my car as it relates to his knowledge and experience for my exact model car, engine, and transmission.
The same goes for the local shop actually. if you spend a couple minutes and talk to them and ask Q's like "how many timing belts (or 100k service, or whatever) have you done on a 2006 VW TDI (or whatever) so far?" and things like "Is there anything in particular I should watch for with this car/engine?" you'll find out real quick how experienced they are. This can also be done over the phone. I think the competent indy guys that specialize in VWs probably know those cars inside and out (but ask to make sure they do). As Tornado red said, the tdiclub list would be a good place to start. Then I would call and feel them out over the phone. Also, local european used car dealers often know who is good as they can't afford to mess around with incompetent technicians.
A trustworthy and knowledgeable indy mechanic is worth his weight in gold. A trustworthy and knowledgeable dealer mechanic is more rare than gold.
I talked to a Portland, Oregon mechanic from the Fred's list. He told me the timing belt change isn't the real cost so much as the potential cost of replacing the cam. I guess the question then is, Is this a good indication of a knowledgeable mechanic, or one who might be planning to take advantage. I am well aware of the cam problems on PD TDIs, but I also know the failure rate is no where near 100 %. He also said you can see cam failure by scoring on the valves, so I assume this is something he can show me to justify the cost is replacement is needed.
My inclination is the guy is trustworthy based on his overall knowledge of the car and his location on the recommended mechanics list. He sounded like he really wanted to be helpful and wanted me to understand what he was doing and why.
My inclination is the guy is trustworthy based on his overall knowledge of the car and his location on the recommended mechanics list. He sounded like he really wanted to be helpful and wanted me to understand what he was doing and why.
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