VW approved oil vs. diesel synthetic

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The vehicle is a 2004 Audi A4 3.0 V6 with roughly 145k.

On VW/ Audi forums, it appears that many folks run a 5w40 diesel synthetic (Rotella T6 mostly) as opposed to a VW approved synthetic. I saw one guy who even backed his claims with a UOA, but obviously I would have to do one myself for peace of mind. Is there any benefit to this? The cost is roughly the same.

I've used M1 0w40 and Pennzoil Ultra 5w40 Euro with great results. The 5w40 consumed a bit less though, which is another reasoning I am curious about a 5w40 diesel synthetic. The factory suggested intervals are 10k, but I keep them around 5k to keep the cams happy.
 
There are only minor differences in requirements between VW 502.00 and API CJ-4 with regard to wear performance. CJ-4 allows for less sulphated ash in the formulation and VW 502.00 allows for less phosphorus but neither is completely out of the ball park in terms of limits.

Both require an HT/HS viscosity of 3.5cP or greater, VW502 wants a TBN of 7 minimum and Rotella states their TBN (of the T6) is 10.6 so they're again in the ball park.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
On VW/ Audi forums, it appears that many folks run a 5w40 diesel synthetic (Rotella T6 mostly) as opposed to a VW approved synthetic. I saw one guy who even backed his claims with a UOA,

Considering that a typical $30 UOA is not a good tool to compare performance of one oil against another, what exactly is that one guy backing with his UOA? Just curious...
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
On VW/ Audi forums, it appears that many folks run a 5w40 diesel synthetic (Rotella T6 mostly) as opposed to a VW approved synthetic. I saw one guy who even backed his claims with a UOA,

Considering that a typical $30 UOA is not a good tool to compare performance of one oil against another, what exactly is that one guy backing with his UOA? Just curious...



TBN retention over a 10k OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
The vehicle is a 2004 Audi A4 3.0 V6 with roughly 145k.

On VW/ Audi forums, it appears that many folks run a 5w40 diesel synthetic (Rotella T6 mostly) as opposed to a VW approved synthetic. I saw one guy who even backed his claims with a UOA, but obviously I would have to do one myself for peace of mind. Is there any benefit to this? The cost is roughly the same.

I've used M1 0w40 and Pennzoil Ultra 5w40 Euro with great results. The 5w40 consumed a bit less though, which is another reasoning I am curious about a 5w40 diesel synthetic. The factory suggested intervals are 10k, but I keep them around 5k to keep the cams happy.

Castrol 0W40, Mobil1 0W40.
New M1 is GTL so it should have good NOACK (NOACK of T6 is 12.4%). Old M1 0W40 had NOACK of 8.7% and Castrol 0W40 is 9.1.
In all aspects M1 and Castrol 0W40 are better oils then T6.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
On VW/ Audi forums, it appears that many folks run a 5w40 diesel synthetic (Rotella T6 mostly) as opposed to a VW approved synthetic. I saw one guy who even backed his claims with a UOA,

Considering that a typical $30 UOA is not a good tool to compare performance of one oil against another, what exactly is that one guy backing with his UOA? Just curious...



TBN retention over a 10k OCI.

Thanks. But does the VW approved oil have poor TBN retention over the same OCI to the point where it causes engine issues? You should also be looking at TAN, by the way.

An oil such as M1 0w-40 or Castrol 0w-40, in addition to being VW approved, is also approved for a number of other Euro mfg specs, some of which have very strict deposit and wear limits.

Considering that these VW approved oils don't cost any more than HDEO, I don't see what the benefit of running HDEO is.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Thanks. But does the VW approved oil have poor TBN retention over the same OCI to the point where it causes engine issues? You should also be looking at TAN, by the way.

An oil such as M1 0w-40 or Castrol 0w-40, in addition to being VW approved, is also approved for a number of other Euro mfg specs, some of which have very strict deposit and wear limits.

Considering that these VW approved oils don't cost any more than HDEO, I don't see what the benefit of running HDEO is.


It was a better TBN retention, which is why he mentioned it. This is the same principle as using a high efficiency filter vs. a budget tiered equivalent.

As far as the number of spec's M1/ Castrol carries, I really don't care.. nor should anyone else for that matter. If it "holds up" (however that may be) better than an approved oil, ideally it would be better to use.

I see you're still running that Castrol HM synthetic. I realize it is an A3/ B4 and a stout oil, but I am assuming you're only running it because it makes you feel good.. unless of course a BMW of that vintage has no required oil approvals. (My Jeep is this way.) How is this any different?

As far as cost, I mentioned that in my OP. I also service enough diesels/ use enough diesel synthetic that it is about the convenience as well.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Thanks. But does the VW approved oil have poor TBN retention over the same OCI to the point where it causes engine issues? You should also be looking at TAN, by the way.

An oil such as M1 0w-40 or Castrol 0w-40, in addition to being VW approved, is also approved for a number of other Euro mfg specs, some of which have very strict deposit and wear limits.

Considering that these VW approved oils don't cost any more than HDEO, I don't see what the benefit of running HDEO is.


It was a better TBN retention, which is why he mentioned it. This is the same principle as using a high efficiency filter vs. a budget tiered equivalent.

As far as the number of spec's M1/ Castrol carries, I really don't care.. nor should anyone else for that matter. If it "holds up" (however that may be) better than an approved oil, ideally it would be better to use.

I see you're still running that Castrol HM synthetic. I realize it is an A3/ B4 and a stout oil, but I am assuming you're only running it because it makes you feel good.. unless of course a BMW of that vintage has no required oil approvals. (My Jeep is this way.) How is this any different?

As far as cost, I mentioned that in my OP. I also service enough diesels/ use enough diesel synthetic that it is about the convenience as well.

No it does not hold better.
Let's start from application. This engine is NOT DI engine. Reason why T6 is used among some VW owners is that 1st generation of 2.0TFSI engines as well as 3.2 V6 FSI engines, V8 FSI engines had huge issues with dilution. It is not TBN per se (M1 has higher TBN) but the fact that cst of T6 is 14.2.
This 3.0 V6 is not DI engine and does not require any improvisation.
If however the case is that it is 2.0T engine, T6 again is not good choice or is not good choice as M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 or Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 etc. Reason is NOACK. T6 has more evaporation loss and poorly designed intake manifold on these engines will experience more deposits with higher NOACK oil. NOACK in T6 is 12.4% compare to 9.1% in Castrol 0W40 or 8.1% in Castrol 0W30. Pennzoil Platinum could have NOACK as low as 6.8% (that was last Ultra GTL based, not sure about Platinum).
So tehse oils are actually more stout then T6. New M1 has TBN of 12.3, which I personally think it is not good due to carbon deposit issues, but if M1 managed to lower NOACK even more then before (8.7% in VISOM version) then it will leave less deposits. In the end, when it comes to deposits, MB 229.5 is most stringent spec. and Castrol, M1, PP are meeting that spec. According to some updated BMW LL-01 spec. right now is the ahrdest to meet, and castrol and PP are both meeting this spec. and M1 0W40 FS does not, but they did some changes and I think thatw as done for that reason.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
This is the same principle as using a high efficiency filter vs. a budget tiered equivalent.

But there is no budget consideration here. Rotella T6 is not any cheaper than the correct approved lubricant.

Quote:
As far as the number of spec's M1/ Castrol carries, I really don't care.. nor should anyone else for that matter. If it "holds up" (however that may be) better than an approved oil, ideally it would be better to use.

But you are only looking at it in one dimension - TBN. There is more to it than just that.

Quote:
I see you're still running that Castrol HM synthetic. I realize it is an A3/ B4 and a stout oil, but I am assuming you're only running it because it makes you feel good.. unless of course a BMW of that vintage has no required oil approvals. (My Jeep is this way.) How is this any different?

Still running Castrol HM? I only just started using it last month. My engine is consuming/seeping oil, so I thought I'd give HM oil a try to see if it helps in that department. BMW LL-01 spec is baselined on ACEA A3/B4. Yes, not the same exact thing, but I'm just experimenting here. I am not claiming that this Castrol Edge HM offers as good of a wear and deposit protection as Castrol Edge 0w-40.
 
My high efficiency filter vs. budget tiered analogy was supposed to be in reference to 2 different oils and how they lasted over an OCI. (Disregard the cost) Clearly, one could be better and hold up better, but the engine will still run just fine for the duration of the OCI and probably won't know the difference.

Second topic: Yes you have me there.. I should have been looking at TAN as you mentioned.

As far as the Castrol Edge HM, thank you for getting my point. You are using something as an experiment to fix a potential problem.. despite the fact that it doesn't carry the correct approvals. (This is BITOG after all) This was another reason for my OP.
 
Back to your original question: is there a benefit to running HDEO in your A4? Personally, I don't see any.

But that doesn't mean it's bad for your engine either.
 
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