VW 502/505 test series

[TooSlick]

VW 502/505 is based on ACEA "A3" standards for gas engines and the older CMCC "PD-2" standards for diesel engines and also includes the following tests in VW engines:

The VW cam and tappet test, "PV5106" is run in the 1.6L IDI diesel engine. The VW T-4, "PV1449" test is run in the 2.0L Vw gas engine.

VW C+T/PV5106

Test Parameter Test Limit

Applied Load - 1800 Newtons
Scuffing - None allowed
Max Tappet Pitting - 20 microns
Max Cam Pitting - 20 microns
Max Tappet Wear - 100 microns
Max Cam Wear - 75 microns

VW T-4/PV1449 - test duration is 248 hours and no makeup oil is allowed during this test. VW T-4 is considered to be a very severe test for oxidation and thickening....

EOT Kinematic Viscosity @ 40C - 194 Cst max
Viscosity Increase @ 40C - 121% max
EOT TBN, mg KOH/g - 4.7
Ring Stick - none allowed
Piston Merit - 1.0 minimum

Note: "EOT" = End of Test

I should add that VW 502/505 requires a HT/HS viscosity for new oil of at least 3.5 Cp @ 150C/302F. However there is NO requirement to measure this parameter after the test is run.

 

[Lance]

Reply from Amsoil regarding VW lube spec 505.01 for VWs new PD engines. Unedited, verbatim quote:

"These are European specs and do not directly apply to VW cars operated in North America. Our diesel oils exceed 505.00 and based on the current API ratings they surpass 505.01 as well.Volkswagen's oil specification for its diesel engines is called VW 505.00. Very few motor oils in North
America carry the VW 505.00 rating. Volkswagen calls for API CD rated oil for the North American
market. The problem is that API CD is so out of date that the API forbids the CD rating from being used.
Volkswagen has not been quick to upgrade its oil specification because of a new rating system being
developed by ACEA in Europe. Volkswagen has now upgraded its oil for diesel engines and aligned it to
the new European specs. The old VW 505.00 specification never had a direct crossover to any API oil
ratings. With Volkswagen's new upgraded diesel oil specification with a direct ACEA rating, there will now
be a direct crossover to an API oil rating. It will be at least a year before the new ACEA B4-98 will have an
API equivalent, probably API CH-4. The following article can be found at www.lubrizol.com in the June
Newsline. ACEA Issues New Engine Oil Specifications Test protocols include new and updated tests.
ACEA has issued upgrades to its specifications for gasoline and diesel passenger car engine oils, and
heavy-duty diesel engine oils. First allowable use of the sequences was March 1, 1998. By March 1, 1999,
all new claims to meet ACEA sequences must conform to the 1998 issue. Claims against ACEA 96
sequences will not be permitted after March 1, 2000. The specifications include both increased test
severity and updated technical requirements with no intent to increase severity. An example of this latter
change is the replacement of the OM 364A engine test with the OM 364LA. This engine, which is the inter-cooled/low emissions version of the OM 364 engine, is used to evaluate bore polish and piston deposits.
For passenger car diesel engine oils, the following changes were made: ?B1-98 ? Additional parameters
were added to the OM 602A test, and the M111E fuel-economy test was added. ?B2-98 and B3-98 ?
Additional parameters were added to the OM 602A test. ?B4-98 ? This is a new category for oils used in direct injection diesel engines requiring special quality oils. The category includes a new engine test, the VW TDI. This four-cylinder , 1.9 liter direct-injection diesel engine is turbocharged and inter-cooled. If you call VW Customer assistance, they will advise you to use a CG-4 rated oil. Our AMSOIL Diesel oils not only meet CG-4 but they far exceed these ratings and even surpass the newer CH-4 and CI-4.

Ed Kellerman
Manager, Amsoil Tech Services"

 

[Nosmo King]

This new PD motor that VW has all ready launched up here in Canada requires VW 505.01.
If you use any oil that does not comply, they state that you will get engine damage.

Now this is pretty tough wording, that we have NEVER seen before.

This PD direct injection motor has 6 wear points rather like cam lobes and this is where the problem is.

Do not confuse VW 505.00 and other similar numbers.

This 505.01 seems to be for this one engine only.

 

[sciroccoGTX16V]

I wonder if the VW dealers will keep on using Syntec on those motors

 

[TooSlick]

Castrol does make a 5w-40, VW 505.01 compliant oil that is being made available to VW dealers for the Pumpe Duese engines ....The French company, "Motul" makes a VW 505.01 oil that is available in Canada and in limited locations in the US.

Ted

 

[Nosmo King]

There has been lots of confusion in Europe
and many customers getting the wrong oil installed by VW dealers no less.

Am I wrong here or does the long statement above by the Amsoil man, Ed Kellerman, leave the reader with the impression that he does not consider much difference in 505.00 and 505.01.
I was left with the feeling that be was approaching this with a rather superior tone.

 

[TooSlick]

Nosmo,

Ed K works in marketing, not Amsoils tech services department. I have spoken to Amsoil tech services about the VW 505.01 issue and they are looking into what is necessary to meet this requirement.

If there is enough demand for VW 505.01 oils, I'm sure they will release a VW 505.01 oil in the next year or two.

Ted

 

[Gary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Castrol does make a 5w-40, VW 505.01 compliant oil that is being made available to VW dealers for the Pumpe Duese engines ....The French company, "Motul" makes a VW 505.01 oil that is available in Canada and in limited locations in the US.
Ted

---

I don't know if it's VW 505.01 spec, but the BMW dealer (Euro Castrol something) 5W-40 oil is $4.00/qt. usually.

 

[Nosmo King]

This situation is so serious in Europe that oil manufacturers are now including 505.01 in the name of the oil.

[ October 28, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Nosmo King ]

 

[Lance]

Ed K's reply did not fill me with confidence either about 505.01 usability. It was convoluted gobbeldegook.

 

[TooSlick]

Lance,

I'm having some tests run on the Castrol 5w-40, VW 505.01 oil to evaluate the additive chemistry and other properties. I'll post the results when available ....

I purchased a quart at the local dealer for $13.23, including tax ...

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics