VW 502.00/505.00 vs. 502.00/505.00/505.01

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nielkfj

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I have a 2013 VW GTI with the 2.0T engine (gasoline engine). I'm looking for a VW 502.00 approved oil for my next oil change. Most (if not all) brands on the market that are 502.00 approved are also 505.00 approved. However, there are also brands that include the 505.01 approval for VW's "Pumpe-Düse" diesel engines. According to the web page linked below, 505.01 is a higher specification than 502.00 - better wear performance in particular. https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php So, I'm thinking that a 502.00/505.00/505.01 approved oil would protect my car engine better than a 502.00/505.00 approved oil. However, the 502.00/505.00/505.01 oils are typically marketed for diesels, so I'm not sure if my reasoning is correct. Any opinions about this would be appreciated.
 
Originally Posted By: nielkfj
I have a 2013 VW GTI with the 2.0T engine (gasoline engine). I'm looking for a VW 502.00 approved oil for my next oil change. Most (if not all) brands on the market that are 502.00 approved are also 505.00 approved. However, there are also brands that include the 505.01 approval for VW's "Pumpe-Düse" diesel engines. According to the web page linked below, 505.01 is a higher specification than 502.00 - better wear performance in particular. https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php So, I'm thinking that a 502.00/505.00/505.01 approved oil would protect my car engine better than a 502.00/505.00 approved oil. However, the 502.00/505.00/505.01 oils are typically marketed for diesels, so I'm not sure if my reasoning is correct. Any opinions about this would be appreciated.
This topic is dissected numerous times. Get Castrol 0W40 in Wal Mart. If not make sure oil has MB229.5 spec. next to VW502.00.
 
Originally Posted By: nielkfj
I have a 2013 VW GTI with the 2.0T engine (gasoline engine). I'm looking for a VW 502.00 approved oil for my next oil change. Most (if not all) brands on the market that are 502.00 approved are also 505.00 approved. However, there are also brands that include the 505.01 approval for VW's "Pumpe-Düse" diesel engines. According to the web page linked below, 505.01 is a higher specification than 502.00 - better wear performance in particular. https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/vw_motor_oil_specifications_explained.php So, I'm thinking that a 502.00/505.00/505.01 approved oil would protect my car engine better than a 502.00/505.00 approved oil. However, the 502.00/505.00/505.01 oils are typically marketed for diesels, so I'm not sure if my reasoning is correct. Any opinions about this would be appreciated.
VW505.01 is made to shear down early, then the viscosity builds up with soot loading. This was back in the pre-ULSD days, when the Pumpe-Duse (BEW) engine was introduced in 2004. With 5,000 mile changes, that is typically done on 2.0T's (FSI and TSI), it's actually worse than a regular 505.00 oil. In fact, cam shaft wear was still a problem using 505.01 oils on the PD engines.
 
Thanks for the recommendations. I'm going through some other threads on the subject now. The Castrol Edge 0W-40 looks good - I didn't realize that it had Group IV base oil, and NOACK less than 10%. One follow-up question I have at the moment is: Using the Castrol (Canada) oil selection tool, there is the regular Castrol Edge 0W-40 and there is a Castrol Edge "Professional" 0W-40 which apparently is only sold at dealerships. From the data sheets it looks like there are some slight differences between them. Does anyone have an opinion about which is better?
 
SR5: Are you able to confirm that Castrol Edge 0W-40 uses a Group IV base stock? A user made that claim in another tread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4299455/Re:_Liqui_Moly_Comparison#Post4299455 I have tried to verify it by searching on the internet, but haven't found anything.
 
Originally Posted By: nielkfj
Does anyone have an opinion about which is better?
Assuming the specs are equal (or close enough), then the one that you can get more readily and more cheaply (i.e. regular Castrol Edge 0w-40) will be "better." I can't see any trip to a dealer for oil in this country being cost effective.
 
Garak: Thanks for the advice, I'm leaning that way too because so far I haven't found any place that sells Edge Pro 0W-40. Regular Edge 0W-40 (probably made in Belgium) is available at Wal-Mart for about $6.50/litre. But one question I have about the Regular version is whether it is made from group IV base stock. Here are data sheets: Regular Edge Product Line (Black Bottle) - data sheet from Castrol Canada: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/B454A10084ABA20980258183005612AA/$File/BPXE-9LWGQK.pdf Edge Pro Product Line (Gold Bottle) - data sheet from Castrol USA: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/4ABA633F17A143FD80257AA90053665B/$File/EDGE%20Professional%20European%20PDS_July_2012.pdf In particular, the pour point for regular Edge 0W-40 is -53C, whereas for Edge Pro 0W-40 it is -60C. So perhaps this is an indication that Regular Edge is made from HC base stock. What do you think?
 
Originally Posted By: nielkfj
Garak: Thanks for the advice, I'm leaning that way too because so far I haven't found any place that sells Edge Pro 0W-40. Regular Edge 0W-40 (probably made in Belgium) is available at Wal-Mart for about $6.50/litre. But one question I have about the Regular version is whether it is made from group IV base stock. Here are data sheets: Regular Edge Product Line (Black Bottle) - data sheet from Castrol Canada: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/B454A10084ABA20980258183005612AA/$File/BPXE-9LWGQK.pdf Edge Pro Product Line (Gold Bottle) - data sheet from Castrol USA: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/4ABA633F17A143FD80257AA90053665B/$File/EDGE%20Professional%20European%20PDS_July_2012.pdf In particular, the pour point for regular Edge 0W-40 is -53C, whereas for Edge Pro 0W-40 it is -60C. So perhaps this is an indication that Regular Edge is made from HC base stock. What do you think?
The Edge 0w40 A3/B4 is in a black bottle for the US. If you look at that SDS, the CAS Number for the base stock matches up with: http://www.cpchem.com/msds/100000010950_SDS_EU_EN.PDF
 
Originally Posted By: nielkfj
In particular, the pour point for regular Edge 0W-40 is -53C, whereas for Edge Pro 0W-40 it is -60C. So perhaps this is an indication that Regular Edge is made from HC base stock. What do you think?
There is quite likely significant PAO content in the retail Edge 0w-40. I can't think of any ordinary HC base stock with a pour point like that in a 40 grade. In any case, I wouldn't worry in the least, given the specs it meets, too. With respect to price, also keep an eye on Canadian Tire, Part Source, and NAPA.
 
Ok, thanks all for the advice. I’ll probably go with the Castrol Edge 0W-40. I am also considering trying to find some older German made stock which apparently contains higher amounts of PAO compared to the current Belgian made version. But the Belgian made version appears to be have "Fluid Titanium Technology", whatever that means. Does anyone know, is this just a marketing gimmick or is this really an improvement to the formulation?
 
I don't think any of us could really say if there's a significant improvement, or a minor improvement followed by a major marketing push. wink In any case, I'd be confident in whatever you happen to find on the shelves. You know how it is in Canada. You could find 3 year old bottles at one location, and something fresh off the truck next door.
 
The one thing I haven't seen people mention is that 502/505/505 01 oils generally are mid SAPS C3 oils product where 502/505 are always full SAPS A3/B4- so the 502/505 products will have a higher ash% meaning more zinc, phos, calcium etc. Porsche A40 is essentially the same test as VW 502.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
The one thing I haven't seen people mention is that 502/505/505 01 oils generally are mid SAPS C3 oils product where 502/505 are always full SAPS A3/B4- so the 502/505 products will have a higher ash% meaning more zinc, phos, calcium etc. Porsche A40 is essentially the same test as VW 502.
Not always true. Castrol 0w40 which is 502/505.00 is at 1.15 ppm, which is in the mid-SAPS territory, not full SAPs,
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
The one thing I haven't seen people mention is that 502/505/505 01 oils generally are mid SAPS C3 oils product where 502/505 are always full SAPS A3/B4- so the 502/505 products will have a higher ash% meaning more zinc, phos, calcium etc. Porsche A40 is essentially the same test as VW 502.
Not always true. Castrol 0w40 which is 502/505.00 is at 1.15 ppm, which is in the mid-SAPS territory, not full SAPs,
Mid-SAPS is up to 1.00ppm. Yet to see C3 oil or VW505.01, or MB229.51 or BMW LL-04 etc. that has SAPS above 1.00. Actually most of them are at 0.8 or lower.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
The one thing I haven't seen people mention is that 502/505/505 01 oils generally are mid SAPS C3 oils product where 502/505 are always full SAPS A3/B4- so the 502/505 products will have a higher ash% meaning more zinc, phos, calcium etc. Porsche A40 is essentially the same test as VW 502.
Not always true. Castrol 0w40 which is 502/505.00 is at 1.15 ppm, which is in the mid-SAPS territory, not full SAPs,
Mid-SAPS is up to 1.00ppm. Yet to see C3 oil or VW505.01, or MB229.51 or BMW LL-04 etc. that has SAPS above 1.00. Actually most of them are at 0.8 or lower.
Looking at the ACEA Standard, Mid-SAPs has sulfated ash of (C2/C3) is up to .8%. Low-SAPS (C1/C4) is up to .5% The original Castrol TXT 505.01 was a B4 oil. This would have met the ACEA 2002 or 2004 standard, and back then Low SAPS were not an issue yet.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Flying_A
The one thing I haven't seen people mention is that 502/505/505 01 oils generally are mid SAPS C3 oils product where 502/505 are always full SAPS A3/B4- so the 502/505 products will have a higher ash% meaning more zinc, phos, calcium etc. Porsche A40 is essentially the same test as VW 502.
Not always true. Castrol 0w40 which is 502/505.00 is at 1.15 ppm, which is in the mid-SAPS territory, not full SAPs,
Mid-SAPS is up to 1.00ppm. Yet to see C3 oil or VW505.01, or MB229.51 or BMW LL-04 etc. that has SAPS above 1.00. Actually most of them are at 0.8 or lower.
Looking at the ACEA Standard, Mid-SAPs has sulfated ash of (C2/C3) is up to .8%. Low-SAPS (C1/C4) is up to .5% The original Castrol TXT 505.01 was a B4 oil. This would have met the ACEA 2002 or 2004 standard, and back then Low SAPS were not an issue yet.
0.8%, you are right. I know there is no way it is above 1. It could be under ACEA E rules.
 
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