Volvo 5 cylinder diesel, no sulfated ash requirement?!

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Nov 7, 2020
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Hi all, looking to change the oil on a 2014 Volvo D4 5 cylinder (engine code D5204T4). Manual states 0W-30 acea A5/B5, wouldn't such an oil clog up the dpf due to the high sulfated ash levels?
 
we had an oil formulator here who was convinced low ash for diesels was a bit of a scam. (extensive lobbying by the 1 additive company that had a low ash add pack for sale then)

when I was working for peugeot we used full saps Total quartz 9000 5w40 a3/b4 oil for the dpf equipped cars, no failures. Peugeots also put extra metallic ash in the dpf through the fuel borne catalyst Eolys.

I'm putting my money where my mouth is and am running a high saps oil in my own dpf equipped car for 6 years now...
 
Forgot to add, I think Ford still not wants low saps oils in their european diesel engines. Every time I see a Ford spec it requires A5/B5. And to me it makes sense as the "cure" against soot (from EGR) is ZDDP and/or HTHS. But for fuel economy reasons everyone is moving away from high HTHS oils. DPFs regenerate by injecting diesel fuel during the exhaust stroke (light duty diesels anyway) which is going to increase fuel dilution in the oil. All diesel fuel can have biodiesel in it aswell, which increases oxidation and degradation of the oil. You need high TBN to combat that.

Low saps oils use less zddp and less calcium/sodium/magnesium in the addpack. So which component are you going to sacrifice, the engine and turbo or the dpf.


here's some excerpts:

• Newer diesel-powered vehicles with diesel particulate filters (DPF), running on ultralow sulfur diesel (ULSD): the recommended TBN range is 6 to 9 mg KOH/g.


Use of biofuel may also justify choosing an oil with a higher TBN. The problem is that crankcase lubricant is always to some extent “diluted” by fuel, especially during short trips, when engine fails to warm up properly, or at high speeds, when a rich fuel-to-air mixture is used to cool the engine. The dilution of motor oil with a conventional petroleum-based fuel will cause a viscosity drop, but doesn’t significantly affect oxidation stability of the oil. However, the dilution of motor oil with biofuel undermines the oxidation stability of the oil.

• When using high sulfur diesel fuel: the recommended TBN range is 12-15 mg KOH/g; go for ACEA E4 or E7, or API CH-4 or CI-4 HDDO. When you are forced to use a bad fuel, it doesn’t really matter if you use an old or a new truck: when you have to choose between engine longevity and exhaust after-treatment system longevity, the former is more important.

• New trucks with EGR engines, fitted with SCR NOx reduction systems and particulate filters, using ULSD diesel fuel: the recommended TBN range is 7 to 9 mg KOH/g. Go for ACEA E6, E9 or API CJ-4, CK-4 or FA-4, as recommended by engine manufacturers.


The oil Iuse has 8.8 TBN btw... and PAO basestock for a large part which is more stable against oxidation. And higher viscosity to combat fuel dilution.
 
Forgot to add, I think Ford still not wants low saps oils in their european diesel engines. Every time I see a Ford spec it requires A5/B5. And to me it makes sense as the "cure" against soot (from EGR) is ZDDP and/or HTHS. But for fuel economy reasons everyone is moving away from high HTHS oils. DPFs regenerate by injecting diesel fuel during the exhaust stroke (light duty diesels anyway) which is going to increase fuel dilution in the oil. All diesel fuel can have biodiesel in it aswell, which increases oxidation and degradation of the oil. You need high TBN to combat that.

Low saps oils use less zddp and less calcium/sodium/magnesium in the addpack. So which component are you going to sacrifice, the engine and turbo or the dpf.


here's some excerpts:

• Newer diesel-powered vehicles with diesel particulate filters (DPF), running on ultralow sulfur diesel (ULSD): the recommended TBN range is 6 to 9 mg KOH/g.


Use of biofuel may also justify choosing an oil with a higher TBN. The problem is that crankcase lubricant is always to some extent “diluted” by fuel, especially during short trips, when engine fails to warm up properly, or at high speeds, when a rich fuel-to-air mixture is used to cool the engine. The dilution of motor oil with a conventional petroleum-based fuel will cause a viscosity drop, but doesn’t significantly affect oxidation stability of the oil. However, the dilution of motor oil with biofuel undermines the oxidation stability of the oil.

• When using high sulfur diesel fuel: the recommended TBN range is 12-15 mg KOH/g; go for ACEA E4 or E7, or API CH-4 or CI-4 HDDO. When you are forced to use a bad fuel, it doesn’t really matter if you use an old or a new truck: when you have to choose between engine longevity and exhaust after-treatment system longevity, the former is more important.

• New trucks with EGR engines, fitted with SCR NOx reduction systems and particulate filters, using ULSD diesel fuel: the recommended TBN range is 7 to 9 mg KOH/g. Go for ACEA E6, E9 or API CJ-4, CK-4 or FA-4, as recommended by engine manufacturers.


The oil Iuse has 8.8 TBN btw... and PAO basestock for a large part which is more stable against oxidation. And higher viscosity to combat fuel dilution.
Interesting read, thanks for sharing!
 
Too bad we don't get that model here. I drove my 240 Volvo diesel until the engine had not enough compression to start anymore. It had a 2.4 liter VW six cylinder engine and the only thing slower was a 240 Mercedes diesel. I used 10W-30 Exxon Superflo mostly. It would run on well filtered used cooking oil which I could collect for nothing from local restaurants. During the winter I would cut the oil with about 20% kerosene.

The diesels weren't popular in the US. Still have the car but doubt if I'll ever rebuild the engine.
 
Too bad we don't get that model here. I drove my 240 Volvo diesel until the engine had not enough compression to start anymore. It had a 2.4 liter VW six cylinder engine and the only thing slower was a 240 Mercedes diesel. I used 10W-30 Exxon Superflo mostly. It would run on well filtered used cooking oil which I could collect for nothing from local restaurants. During the winter I would cut the oil with about 20% kerosene.

The diesels weren't popular in the US. Still have the car but doubt if I'll ever rebuild the engine.
This specific model was only in production for a couple of years with the V40, replaced by the VEA 4 cylinders. Love the 5 pot grumble it has.
 
Forgot to add, I think Ford still not wants low saps oils in their european diesel engines. Every time I see a Ford spec it requires A5/B5. And to me it makes sense as the "cure" against soot (from EGR) is ZDDP and/or HTHS. But for fuel economy reasons everyone is moving away from high HTHS oils. DPFs regenerate by injecting diesel fuel during the exhaust stroke (light duty diesels anyway) which is going to increase fuel dilution in the oil. All diesel fuel can have biodiesel in it aswell, which increases oxidation and degradation of the oil. You need high TBN to combat that.
Ford......and I think Volvo also are of those manufacturers who are using that method of DPF purging....

VAG....it depends....or with additional glow plug in DPF or via scr (Adblue).....
Dont know those technologies in details......but there may lay that difference in need of low/mid saps oils
 
we had an oil formulator here who was convinced low ash for diesels was a bit of a scam. (extensive lobbying by the 1 additive company that had a low ash add pack for sale then)

when I was working for peugeot we used full saps Total quartz 9000 5w40 a3/b4 oil for the dpf equipped cars, no failures. Peugeots also put extra metallic ash in the dpf through the fuel borne catalyst Eolys.

I'm putting my money where my mouth is and am running a high saps oil in my own dpf equipped car for 6 years now...

I soooo want to believe this, as I am fed up with high dollar oils that are supposed to be Euro-Elixirs.

I am one inch.... maybe on centimeter.... from pouring in Rotella T6 5w40 into the wifes Mercedes.


...........
 
Yeah me too......I am thinkering with an idea to simplify my oil stash with a barrel of "low saps" HDEO (Rimula R6LM in 10w40)
 
I soooo want to believe this, as I am fed up with high dollar oils that are supposed to be Euro-Elixirs.

I am one inch.... maybe on centimeter.... from pouring in Rotella T6 5w40 into the wifes Mercedes.


...........
Rotella T6 doesn't meet any mercedes standards though. But you can choose an oil from the 229.5 list.

It's probably going to be just fine but mercedes also wants noack volatility below 10%.
 
My 2009 Peugeot with 2.0 litre DPF equipped diesel engine also calls for an ACEA A3/B4 oil in its original manual. Eolys DPF additive is also metallic based which will leave its own ash residue. Never had any DPF issues on this car.

My 2005 VW with the 3.0 TDI calls for VW 507.000 from the factory.


Interesting thing: Most HDEO oils intended for the usage with DPF and SCR and EGR and whatnot equipped trucks have sulphated ash levels at or above ACEA A3/B4 levels. Usually far above C3 levels. Apparently it works in heavy duty trucks - and from what I understand their DPF systems work the same way as they do in cars - except they are double, triple more expensive in case something goes wrong.
 
.Interesting thing: Most HDEO oils intended for the usage with DPF and SCR and EGR and whatnot equipped trucks have sulphated ash levels at or above ACEA A3/B4 levels. Usually far above C3 levels. Apparently it works in heavy duty trucks - and from what I understand their DPF systems work the same way as they do in cars - except they are double, triple more expensive in case something goes wrong.
Low saps HDEOs have ash levels @1.0 max....thats ACEA E6/E9 spec!

ACEA C3 (base for specs as VW 504/507 MB 229.51/52 BMW LL-04) has 0.8max limit

ACEA C4 is 0.5max

Dont care for C1 C2 C5 bcs those are CAFE sh....not interested in it :)

ACEA A3/B4 i think it is 1.0
ACEA E4/E7 full saps HDEO goes up to 2.0 (dont remember its lower limit)

And yes would like to simplify my oil stash for both cars with Rimula R6LM...since it has ash @0.95...but dont know
 
I soooo want to believe this, as I am fed up with high dollar oils that are supposed to be Euro-Elixirs.

I am one inch.... maybe on centimeter.... from pouring in Rotella T6 5w40 into the wifes Mercedes.
If you're looking for 229.51 oil Walmart.com has Castrol EDGE 5W-30 LL for $24.04/5 quarts and it's on the Bevo list. It's also VW 504.00 and what I use in my Tiguan.
 
If you're looking for 229.51 oil Walmart.com has Castrol EDGE 5W-30 LL for $24.04/5 quarts and it's on the Bevo list. It's also VW 504.00 and what I use in my Tiguan.

Interesting, I had not been able to find a VW 504 at Wally's before. That's a good deal. If I am not thrilled with the UOA of the VW (Mobil) that would be worth trying.
 
Interesting, I had not been able to find a VW 504 at Wally's before. That's a good deal. If I am not thrilled with the UOA of the VW (Mobil) that would be worth trying.
I've never seen it at a store but when you buy two you get free shipping on Walmart.com. It's a screaming deal for a C3/504/229.51 oil, it's a better price than Mobil 1 ESP at NAPA when on sale plus it gets delivered to your door. This would be an excellent oil for the OP to use in his Volvo as well as many other vehicles.
 
For four years I have purchased Pennzoil 5w30 Euro L from Walmart in the 5 quart jugs, usually for about $24. It carries the Mercedes 229 spec. I just changed the oil on the wife's BlueTec with this oil again. As long as it is available for less than $5 a quart, I will keep using it.
 
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