VOA's Gold vs Green

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Have VOA's done on them and wow what a difference in chemistry will post on Monday the test data but from memory the GOLD is very weak in DI package and TBN. gold TBN = 5.5 Green TBN = 8.5 Also the gold has a higher MG and lower CA than the Green. Gold looks lame sorry. But IR shows both have the same amount of Elve's polymer. About 20%. bruce
 
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bruce, I KNOW you are the expert, not me, but I just cannot believe Castrol is marketing an oil spec'd for the ratings it possesses that is a TBN of 5.5! Is there a minimum ACEA requirement for TBN to pass some of its tests? How could it meet BMW LL01...even with a large sump, 5.5 would be really stretching it.
 
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Thanks bruce. We had two VOA's done on the Gold vs the Green. Basically they were the same oil in terms of viscosity, but as you mentioned, the Gold has much more Mg and less Ca. The Green has more Ca and hardly any Mg. Some of us have thought this might be the new low SAPS version we are seeing.
 
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I went over to the ACEA test sequences for 2004; the only minimum requirement for TBN is to be rated C3 TBN must be >6.0.
 
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I also checked the one UOA we have on the Gold and with over 3700 miles on the oil, the TBN was 6.9. Do you use a TBN testing method that might give lower numbers than some of the labs? I am not in any way trying to be rude, but I have felt like there were folks who came on board BITOG with an axe to grind, maybe against Castrol, maybe against GC, because they like to shoot at someone's balloon...for whatever reason. YOU don't have an axe to grind do you? No offense is intended but the Elfe Meister wouldn't much live up to his name if he didn't protect the work of the diminutive ones and right now this is more than I am willing to accept without empirical data based on accepted testing methods. I figure if you are approaching this scientifically you will appreciate, not be offended by a guy who says "show me 'the science'" as well as the data. [Cheers!] PS I have seen the credentials you have listed and the experience you have described that you have. [ July 30, 2005, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: pscholte ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by buster: Thanks bruce. We had two VOA's done on the Gold vs the Green. Basically they were the same oil in terms of viscosity, but as you mentioned, the Gold has much more Mg and less Ca. The Green has more Ca and hardly any Mg. Some of us have thought this might be the new low SAPS version we are seeing.
Question: what is "SAPS"???? I could try to guess but I might be 86'd from BITOG!!!
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Crashbox:
quote:
Originally posted by buster: Thanks bruce. We had two VOA's done on the Gold vs the Green. Basically they were the same oil in terms of viscosity, but as you mentioned, the Gold has much more Mg and less Ca. The Green has more Ca and hardly any Mg. Some of us have thought this might be the new low SAPS version we are seeing.
Question: what is "SAPS"???? I could try to guess but I might be 86'd from BITOG!!!

It is Sulphated Ash Phosphorus Sulphur and has to do with affect on catalytic converters.
 
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Hi I have Gold GC in my 3800 with 4400 miles on this fill. All of this talk of lower TBN compared to green is making me nervous about completing the change interval. I was planning on doing a UOA @ 5k mi just to establish a baseline for continued use of Gold GC. Should I change out now and use M1 instead?
 
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A drop like that in additives and TBN would take a lot of the luster out of GC, even if the base oils are the same. Looking forward to your results. -T
 
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Lynden, Washington
quote:
Originally posted by Crashbox: Thank you, pscholte. Must have something to do with ZDDP...
Or perhaps some other component(s) of oil containing these elements... It seems that a fair number of folks are quite "nervous" about the gold GC vs. the green. Now that I have some gold GC myself maybe I should mix it with the AMSOIL 5W-30- hmmm...
 
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I think everyone should take a measured approach to what we are hearing. We don't have all the facts. The worst part is we don't know which version of European SLX the Gold is and we don't know the technical tricks (that might not appear when be looked at as if it were a "regularly forumlated" oil) that have gone into it. Remember how "trick" GC Green turned out to be. Also remember SLX LL04 (for BMW LL requirements) is an A3/B3/C3 LL04 SM HT/HS 3.5 oil and it is only a TBN of 6.7. In addition remember we already have a UOA on the Gold and at 3780 miles its TBN was 6.9 which is higher after use than bruce381 is reporting as a VOA level. My recommendation at this point is wait until we gather facts...the only sensationalism you should fall prey to is that it is still made by the Elves. [Wink]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by pscholte: -snip- (that might not appear when be looked at as if it were a "regularly forumlated" oil) that have gone into it. -snip-
I think GC is the most "forumlated" oil on BITOG!!! [Big Grin] Sorry, I just could NOT resist!!!!!
 

bruce381

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3,481
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Millbrae, CA
I will post data on monday till then the vis @100C were both 12.1 or so just TBN is "off" I may have The TBN re run on both to make sure and will post lot#'s how many digits do you need? Example M0502? PS No axe to grind with Castrol just a fun project to look into, also I had a few polymer samples that I think are in the GC and IR matched up pretty good showing about 20% or so of Elve polymer in both but will recheck and post on monday. Also will verify the TBN method used think was the lower one. Bruce [ July 30, 2005, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: bruce381 ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by bruce381: I will post data on monday till then the vis @100C were both 12.1 or so just TBN is "off" I may have The TBN re run on both to make sure and will post lot#'s how many digits do you need? Example M0502? PS No axe to grind with Castrol just a fun project to look into, also I had a few polymer samples that I think are in the GC and IR matched up pretty good showing about 20% or so of Elve polymer in both but will recheck and post on monday. Also will verify the TBN method used think was the lower one. Bruce
Thanks Bruce...I just don't want the citizens of the Elvish village [Wink] to jump to conclusions. One problem I think we have here, being 4000+ miles away from the source of the Euro oils, is we just don't have all the facts. It is obvious that Elf, Castrol and Shell are niche/narrowly spec specific marketing some of their oils: witness the 229.5 oils, the Euro GM and Euro Ford oils, the VW oils, the Pump Düse oils, from Elf the Renault oil, and on and on. I would expect they would send us more generally applicable formulations (like the basic SLX/GC) but with Castrol's American marketing you just don't know...you DO know what you're getting from them in the rest of the world. Regards.... Paul
 
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