voa red line mtl

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Red Line MTL 3/26/06
Butler Machinery Fluid Analysis
sample taken from bottle 7-8 months old. left over from previous fluid change.

element ppm
copper---------0
iron-----------1
chrome---------0
nickel---------0
titan----------0
vanadium-------0
silver---------0
lead-----------0
tin------------4
aluminum-------0
silicon--------18
sodium---------2
Potassium------1
molybdenum-----1
boron----------33
barium---------1
calcium--------4076
Magnesium------11
Manganese------0
Phosphorus-----3184
Antimony-------4
Zinc-----------3523

Visc cst 100c - 10.7

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Strong additive pack (even when compared to Honda MTF), probably typical of boutique Manual Transmission Lubes. I too agree with Molakule that Manual Transmission Lubes are preferred over ATFs for usage in Manual Transmissions due to the higher levels of anti-wear additives. I think this fluid would be a good choice for those applications specifying ATFs.
 
I would go with the Redline. In a UOA I ran a few years back, the Honda MTF thinned out pretty quick. I have two quarts left, and after I use these, I will run Redline next in my Integra, Joe

Honda MTF UOA
 
Molakule,

There are MANY C5 Corvettes running the RL MTL in place of the automatic transmission fluid in the Manual Transmissions without issues. However, most of these users are ones who use their Corvette for track use. Same applies to the BMWs; there are many BMWs that require ATF but enthusiasts have replaced it with MTL...no shifting problems either (hot or cold), and many of these are used as daily drivers.
 
I dont really understand the effects all this stuff in the fluids have on transmissions ... but based on the Redline MTF and Honda MTF analysis, which would be better to use in my 95 Integra GSR?
 
I assume the AW/EP additives in this oil are mostly zinc, phosphorous calcium based? I thought this lube had more boron in it for some reason.
dunno.gif


Steve S. I know Red Line used to recommend MTL for all applications thinner than a 90 weight gear oil. However, in recent years, I thought Dave Granquist was recommending one of their ATFs for these same applications?

In either case, I'd use MolaKule's lightest syncromesh fluid ... Synchroglide? ... for the heaviest duty applications calling for an ATF-thin fluid. I can't think of what would be better ... at any price.

--- Bror Jace
 
"No way. The MTL is way too thick for a manual tranny requiring ATF."

How can you say that? without knowing tranny type, modification, use temp, HP of engine etc.??

bruce
 
quote:

Originally posted by bruce381:
"No way. The MTL is way too thick for a manual tranny requiring ATF."

How can you say that? without knowing tranny type, modification, use temp, HP of engine etc.??

bruce


It's simple...there is a reason certain manuals spec ATF and the thinness of the viscosity is one of them. I have spoken with a few T5 & T56 tranny specialists and all basically said to me that the thicker fluids make for happy bearings BUT usually causing syncronizer problems down the road. That is why they recommend sticking with ATF and when I asked specifically about Redline MTL, they said NO. I think Specialty Formulations MTFglide is a perfect fluid for where ATF is specced because of it's ATf like viscosity.

Hammer
 
RED LINE SYNTHETIC OIL CORP.
6100 Egret Court, Benicia, CA 94510 USA TEL: (707)745-6100 FAX: (707)745-3214
Synthetic Manual
Transmission Fluids
RED LINE®
SYNTHETIC
OIL
RPM
X 1000
Typical Properties
D4 High-Temp
ATF ATF MTL® MT 90 75W90NS 75W140NS
API Service Category: GL 4 GL 4 GL 4 GL 4 GL 5+ GL 5+
Recommended Use: Dexron IIE / III Dexron IIE / III
Mercon, Mercon V Mercon
Viscosity Grade:
SAE Grade (Gear Oil) 70W80 75W80 70W80 75W90 75W90 75W140
SAE Grade (Engine Oil) 0W20 5W30 5W30 15W40
Vis @ 100°C, cSt 7.5 10.0 10.6 15.6 15.6 26.9
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 34.0 53.9 56.2 90.0 94.5 179.2
Viscosity Index 198 172 183 185 176 188
Brookfield Vis @ -40°C, Poise 52 175 120 320 400 1200
Pour Point, °C -60 -51 -50 -45 -45 -45
Pour Point, °F -76 -60 -58 -49 -49 -49
Flash Point, °C 225 238 232 240 221 216
Flash Point, °F 437 460 450 465 430 420
Red Line Transmission Lubricants are designed to provide excellent low-temperature shiftability
and improved gear protection at higher temperatures. Efficiency improvements between 1-5% are
typical. The synthetic base stocks used have tremendous thermal stability and provide the best film
strength available. The unique combination of base stocks and additives allow Red Line
transmission oils to carry higher loads compared to petroleum lubricants. The stability of these
products allow them to be used for extended periods. MTL® can be used in most manual
transmissions and transaxles for both street and racing use unless the manufacturer requires the
additional protection of an SAE 90 or the extreme-pressure protection of a GL-5. In those
situations the MT 90 (GL-4) or 75W90NS (GL-5) will provide good shiftability and synchro
compatibility and extra gear protection. Limited-slip transaxles may require the 75W90 Gear Oil to
prevent limited-slip chatter. 75W140NS is designed to help reduce the noise in noisy transmissions
and transaxles, while still allowing good low-temperature shiftability. D4 ATF and High-Temp ATF
provides the gear protection of a GL-4 gear oil in an automatic transmission fluid, which is far
superior to a conventional ATF. This gear protection makes it perfect for lubricating automatic
transaxles and high-performance automatic transmissions. The D4 ATF provides the best lowtemperature
shiftability. MTL® provides better wear protection in most manual transmissions which
call for an ATF which can be very important in racing applications. MTL® provides the lowtemperature
properties equivalent to a petroleum ATF. All Red Line transmission lubricants provide
excellent synchronizer compatibility.
Rev 2/04 This is from the Redline website .Redline recommends mtl in atf lubed manual trannies .I do not know how up to date Redline keeps their website up to date.
 
that's nice that Redline recomends their 11cSt MTL in ATF specs transmissions. That does not make it right. I could recommend to you to put 75w-140 in a tranny that specs ATF, that doesn't make it right either. In reality I don't recommend either. If one must use a fluid thicker than ATF, about the only type I would go for is a 9cSt Syncromesh type.

Hammer
 
quote:

"No way. The MTL is way too thick for a manual tranny requiring ATF."

How can you say that? without knowing tranny type, modification, use temp, HP of engine etc.??

bruce

exactly. for years, Land Rover specced Dex II in their LT77, then it's replacement R380 transmissions (still used in Defenders, and up to Discovery II )
Several years ago the factory fill changed to a 10.5 cSt @100*C MTF, specifically Texaco MTF94 and this is the recommended replacement lube for all earlier g/boxes. (re a TSB)
This gear box uses an integral gear pump to pressure feed the bearings, so it should be very sensitive to viscosity, yet copes fine, even with heavier brews.

FWIW, no gearbox reconditioning shop here in Oz will honour warranty if an ATF has been used in one of these boxes either. The recommendation is a 75W-80 at a minimum, yet the crazy thing is the factory manual still recommends an ATF and so it gets used, contrary to the TSB.....
dunno.gif
 
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