VOA Liqui Moly Leichtlauf HT 5W-40 SN A3/B4

[slo town]

Hello:

Here are two VOAs of Liqui Moly Leichtlauf HT 5W-40. These were from different batches of oil. Notice I had 40C and 100C, plus TBN tested. See VI in comment sections.

The elemental analysis seems to be more different than I would have expected. Do you think the results are because of production variations in the oil, ongoing oil blending changes, sampling error/precision by Blackstone, or combination of some or all?

Scott

April 2016




November 2015 (from a different batch than the April 2016 sample)

 

[drtyler]

I would say the difference in elemental numbers is minor, and all within the % error of each batch and the % error of the actual analysis.

The VI changing from 181 to 146 is interesting. Does that seem to indicate a change in the base oils or viscosity modifiers?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Thank you!


Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Do you think the results are because of production variations in the oil, ongoing oil blending changes, sampling error/precision by Blackstone, or combination of some or all?

I would say combination of all the above.

 

[Red91]

Why is there no Moly in it?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Red91
Why is there no Moly in it?


Liqui-moly is a name brand. Not a product description.

 

[Red91]

I would have thought moly would be pertinent in a Euro spec oil add pack. Just a little disappointing for it to have none.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Red91
I would have thought moly would be pertinent in a Euro spec oil add pack.

Why? What is so special about moly? There is more than one way to formulate a good add pack.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Red91
I would have thought moly would be pertinent in a Euro spec oil add pack.

Why? What is so special about moly? There is more than one way to formulate a good add pack.


It's fairly easy to formulate an engine oil without Moly, BUT it does help if the mix has some Boron and this Lauf oil does not. It's a cheap version sold mostly in the US, so if you want to use a better Liqui moly oil, try their Synthoil High Tech 5w40 (Acea A3/B4), as that really is the dogs small round things!

 

[slo town]

Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
It's fairly easy to formulate an engine oil without Moly, BUT it does help if the mix has some Boron and this Lauf oil does not. It's a cheap version sold mostly in the US, so if you want to use a better Liqui moly oil, try their Synthoil High Tech 5w40 (Acea A3/B4), as that really is the dogs small round things!


I'm not sure I agree with you. The Leichlauf is BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5 approved, the Synthoil only BMW LL-98 and MB 229.3 approved.

Scott

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Originally Posted By: UltrafanUK
It's fairly easy to formulate an engine oil without Moly, BUT it does help if the mix has some Boron and this Lauf oil does not. It's a cheap version sold mostly in the US, so if you want to use a better Liqui moly oil, try their Synthoil High Tech 5w40 (Acea A3/B4), as that really is the dogs small round things!


I'm not sure I agree with you. The Leichlauf is BMW LL-01 and MB 229.5 approved, the Synthoil only BMW LL-98 and MB 229.3 approved.

Scott


I don't pay attention to approvals or recommendations as the oil company often has to supply the factory fill for free and dealer oil at cost. They do that because it's a good marketing tactic, also German companies tend to stick together anyway.
Recommendations are more common, but a almost meaningless in technical terms.

I've never seen a UOA result from an engine that produces consistant results (Mid block life with the same user and useage) where are oil of the same spec in SAE and Acea group terms could match the real McCoy top dogs of Ultra or LM Synthoil.

Moly (Mo) in the best form is an expensive additive and Boron Nitride is just as expensive, so I'm not surprised to see them missing from Iffylube or dealership oils.

 

[Red91]

I like Moly as an anti wear additive, and like oils that contain it. I'm sure this is a good oil though. Just an observation, and that's what this site should be about. Why is everyone always so snarky?

 

[SR5]

Hi Red91,

From this thread:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3984909

The question was asked what makes a good Euro Long-Life oil

Originally Posted By: Skid
No magic ingredient.

• Stable base oil (like PAO, Group III) (won't show in VOA);
• stable VII (like OCP but not PMA) (won't show in VOA);
• lots of primary antioxidant (amines/phenols) (won't show in VOA);
• lots of secondary antioxidant (ZDDP in secondary role) (will show in VOA);
• lots of detergent (will show in VOA);
• lots of dispersant (won't show in VOA);
• reduced or complete absence of stuff that could interfere with detergent (like moly).

Also, cars that can go long OCI usually have large oil capacities (e.g., 7 qt vs. 5 qt), and will have huge synthetic oil filters (my BMW's filter element is synthetic and about 3x the area of a normal car's oil filter).


I agree, Moly is good stuff, but it doesn't seem to be used in Euro Long Life oils like BMW LL-01 or MB 229.5

Get a LM product without theses OEM specs, and it probably has lots of moly in it, if that is what you want. Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with their product range, so I can't offer much detailed advice.

 

[SR5]

Having a quick look, only LM oil that claims added MoS2 is the "LEICHTLAUF MOS2 in 20W-50 or 10W-40"

I believe the first is mineral and the second is semi-synthetic

 

[Red91]

Hmm, I guess I didn't realize Moly would interfere with the detergents of a Euro spec oil.

I'm going to run the Leichthauf 10W-40 in my Roadmaster next change, so now that that's out of the way, I need to start looking for a LM oil for the Cruze, to replace the QSUD. Although that will be like another year before it's due.

 

[Quattro Pete]

M1 0w-40 contains moly and it meets a bunch of Euro long life specs.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Red91
Hmm, I guess I didn't realize Moly would interfere with the detergents of a Euro spec oil.


Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
M1 0w-40 contains moly and it meets a bunch of Euro long life specs.


I sort of agree with what Skid said above, most Euro oil have reduced or no Moly, but Moly can be there of course. Many paths to the top of the mountain.

Looking at some VOA's (for ppm of Moly) in Euro oils
German Castrol Edge 0W-40 has 1 ppm Mo
PP Euro 0W-40 has 51 ppm Mo
M1 0W-40 FS has 71 ppm Mo

But most of the high Moly oils tend to be non-Euro SOPUS products
QSUD 5W-30 has 252 ppm Mo
PYB 10W-30 has 192 ppm Mo
QSGB 5W-30 has 171 ppm Mo

Then you get the Valvoline Products, with low metal add pack (not a bad thing)
SynPower 5W-30 has 0 ppm Mo
VWB 5W-30 has 0 ppm Mo

Castrol in the middle ground
Edge EP 5W-30 has 64 ppm Mo
GTX 10W-40 has 85 ppm Mo

etc

But I would be interested in seeing a VOA of a LM oil that has MoS2 added at the factory. Just to compare with the rest.

Ahhhhhhh…….lists of numbers…….so soothing…..

 

[Red91]

SR5, I'm going to do a VOA on the MoS2 Leichthauf 10W-40 I'm going to buy in the fall. I'm interested in it too, as I've heard it's also high in Zinc.