My Yamaha manual says 10W30 below 60F and 20W40 above 40F.
Viscosity vs CAFE
- Thread starter VaderSS
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The temps are in F. They also list the C. I know the Delo will pump at -38F, and I try not to spend much time at those temps, normally not below freezing, and almost never below 10F.
I'd like to see what Toyota recommends in the US for those engines.
I'd like to see what Toyota recommends in the US for those engines.
We don't have CAFE standards here and maybe someone can compare a U.S. sold vehicle to the one I picked up last night. A Toyota HiLux Pickup, 4x4, 5 passenger crew cab.
The manual recommends API SL oil, with:
20w50 above 20F
15w40 above 10F
10w30 above 0F
5w30 if the ambient temp will not go above 50F
This is for all of the gasoline engines:
2.0 L, 2.4 L, 2.7 L.
They also recommend changes at 6,000 miles under normal driving and 3,000 for off-road, city, etc. after the initial change at 600 miles.
Also interesting is that for each engine they add a little more than a quart of capacity to the sump for when it is in a 4x4, so I guess they figure we will fill it with dust.
This engine will have Delo 15w40 after the first 600 miles.
What is the recommendation of Toyota for the U.S.?
The manual recommends API SL oil, with:
20w50 above 20F
15w40 above 10F
10w30 above 0F
5w30 if the ambient temp will not go above 50F
This is for all of the gasoline engines:
2.0 L, 2.4 L, 2.7 L.
They also recommend changes at 6,000 miles under normal driving and 3,000 for off-road, city, etc. after the initial change at 600 miles.
Also interesting is that for each engine they add a little more than a quart of capacity to the sump for when it is in a 4x4, so I guess they figure we will fill it with dust.
This engine will have Delo 15w40 after the first 600 miles.
What is the recommendation of Toyota for the U.S.?
The Manual for my 1979 Toyota Pickup (2.2L 20R engine) specifies viscosities essentially identical to what you have posted. I have used my own blend of half 20W-50 and Half 10W-30 castrol gtx. When the engine reached 100,000 miles it was still running perfectly. Some experienced mechanics recommend using the lightest oil that works without excessive burning or leakage. Based on this idea I tried an experiment. I changed the oil using castrol gtx 5W-30 and further thinned it out using a quart of marvel mystery oil. The result was slightly better (about a half a mile per gallon)gas mileage, Slightly increased idle speed. This was done during a very hot part of the season and included some heavy duty driving(high speeds and hill climbing).The engine used no more oil than normal (about a pint per 1000 miles)The truck ran as good as new throughout the 3000 mile oil change interval. I figured that with 100,000 miles on the engine with this kind of performance using thin oil , I must have been doing something right so I switched back to my "blend". Truck now has 170,000 thousand on it and shows no sign of engine deterioration.
Toyota engines are relatively bulletproof and with modern synthetic oils I would think that they would run indefinitely no matter what "weight" you used.
Toyota engines are relatively bulletproof and with modern synthetic oils I would think that they would run indefinitely no matter what "weight" you used.
You sure those temps are not celsius? Seems like running 20W50 at below freezing would be a sure way to trash a motor.
Above 68F would sound about right.
Above 68F would sound about right.
widman
Are the temps you show the minimum temp reached in Fahrenheit? I'll convert to C and see what Toyota here recommend.
Are the temps you show the minimum temp reached in Fahrenheit? I'll convert to C and see what Toyota here recommend.
Hey Widman,
When my trucks hit about 50k, I start mixing half 20w50 and half 10w30 too, like Ed above says he does. I used to live in NW Florida and always used 20w50 down there.
I have never owned Toyota so I can't vouch for the recommendations, but I do believe the CAFE is the only reason that mfgrs are recommending 10w30 oils.
Rando
When my trucks hit about 50k, I start mixing half 20w50 and half 10w30 too, like Ed above says he does. I used to live in NW Florida and always used 20w50 down there.
I have never owned Toyota so I can't vouch for the recommendations, but I do believe the CAFE is the only reason that mfgrs are recommending 10w30 oils.
Rando
Patman
Staff member
Rando, I'm curious. Why not just find a suitable 10w40 or 15w40 oil instead of mixing like that? I believe CAFE is responsible for 5w30 and 5w20, but not for 10w30. I still think that 10w30 oils, especially those with a good additive package, can work well in making an engine last a very long time, especially since they stay in grade so well, and don't leave as many deposits behind because of the lesser amounts of VII.
[ August 21, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
[ August 21, 2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
The chart shows both C and F. (graph)approx equiv=
20w50 -7 C, 20 F
15w40 -9 C, 15 F
10w30 -18 C, 0 F
Most interesting is how it seems to back up a theory I believe Patman has expressed here that the higher levels of VI improvers hurt the high temp qualities of the 5w30, since they recommend 10w30 through the top of the temp chart, but 5w30 only up to 50F.
20w50 -7 C, 20 F
15w40 -9 C, 15 F
10w30 -18 C, 0 F
Most interesting is how it seems to back up a theory I believe Patman has expressed here that the higher levels of VI improvers hurt the high temp qualities of the 5w30, since they recommend 10w30 through the top of the temp chart, but 5w30 only up to 50F.
Patman, back to ya,
I use 10w/30 in one vehicle now with a young reman engine (95 S10 Blazer new engine at 107k miles that probably had some heat issues and only used 10w/30 oil,(only vehicle since 1975 I have ever stayed with 10w/30 oil by the way) and I use 20w/50 in a 1989 Nissan truck with 183k miles on it now, so I have plenty of those 2 weight oils on hand, so I just mix them.
I would otherwise probably use 15w/40 if I had to go out and buy it seperately.
I personally believe that 10w/30 is about as thin as oil can be and be a well rounded oil...ok during most of the summer and most of the winter, low amount of the VII required, etc.
I am just more concerned with controlling engine wear than getting any small economy gains that the 10w/30 may give me. I believe the manufacturers are more under the gun to get max fuel economy from vehicles than they are to get max long term usage from them. They know that more people are leasing vehicles now than years ago and more people do not keep vehicles for the full 200+k miles that some of us do. Anyone that buys a used vehicle and then has motor problems at 100+k miles can always blame the previous owner for neglect, when if heavier oil had been used the trouble have been prevented. I'm not saying that 10w/30 will not carry the vehicle for a full life, I just think it is marginal, and I choose to go a little heavier.
We all have our preferences I guess.
see ya
Rando
I use 10w/30 in one vehicle now with a young reman engine (95 S10 Blazer new engine at 107k miles that probably had some heat issues and only used 10w/30 oil,(only vehicle since 1975 I have ever stayed with 10w/30 oil by the way) and I use 20w/50 in a 1989 Nissan truck with 183k miles on it now, so I have plenty of those 2 weight oils on hand, so I just mix them.
I would otherwise probably use 15w/40 if I had to go out and buy it seperately.
I personally believe that 10w/30 is about as thin as oil can be and be a well rounded oil...ok during most of the summer and most of the winter, low amount of the VII required, etc.
I am just more concerned with controlling engine wear than getting any small economy gains that the 10w/30 may give me. I believe the manufacturers are more under the gun to get max fuel economy from vehicles than they are to get max long term usage from them. They know that more people are leasing vehicles now than years ago and more people do not keep vehicles for the full 200+k miles that some of us do. Anyone that buys a used vehicle and then has motor problems at 100+k miles can always blame the previous owner for neglect, when if heavier oil had been used the trouble have been prevented. I'm not saying that 10w/30 will not carry the vehicle for a full life, I just think it is marginal, and I choose to go a little heavier.
We all have our preferences I guess.
see ya
Rando
Patman
Staff member
I do agree that the thinner 10w30s out there (the ones that are skirting on the edge of being a 10w20) probably don't protect as well, which is why I like a 10w30 that is closer to the middle to high scale of a 30wt. Ideally I like to see it around 11 to 11.5 cst at 100c. That's what kind of turns me off about a lot of the 10w30 synthetics out there, they are at or slightly below 10.0cst at 100c. It definitely pays to look at the specs when choosing an oil, as all 10w30s are not created equal.
I think this indeed shows that here in North America we are being asked to sacrifice engine wear for CAFE!!
It's my understanding that Japanese companies make similar reccomendations for their cars sold in Japan.
It's my understanding that Japanese companies make similar reccomendations for their cars sold in Japan.
Hey Wideman: What year model is your Toyota truck. The last time I had a Toyota truck called a HiLux was in 1975. Only in America
Johnny - all the standard Toyota pickups here for years have been called HiLux. They also sell the 4Runner in some countries as a HiLux(although both of my 4Runner's are the real thing). It's a mid-sized pickup. This one is 4 door 5 passenger 4x4, but they also sell a 4 door 6 passenger and a 2 door 3 passenger version. They also have a heavy duty midsized pickup (2 ton)called a Stout, a heavy duty 4x4 pickup called under the Land Cruiser label, and a heavy duty 4x4 pickup (1.2 ton) called a Bandeirante using the 1960-1970's Land Cruiser body parts. This is an ugly workhorse. I have a 3 year old one I send on 1,000 miles a week of mud and dust with 6 to 7 drums of oil.
[ August 22, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: widman ]
[ August 22, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: widman ]
Seems like its always gonna be an issue. Nice old thread!!!
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Originally Posted By: VaderSS
You sure those temps are not celsius? Seems like running 20W50 at below freezing would be a sure way to trash a motor.
Above 68F would sound about right.
Ferenheit is correct. My car`s fsm says 20W50 can be used down to 14F.
You sure those temps are not celsius? Seems like running 20W50 at below freezing would be a sure way to trash a motor.
Above 68F would sound about right.
Ferenheit is correct. My car`s fsm says 20W50 can be used down to 14F.
Yep, the numbers seem odd, but that's likely correct. The old Audi manual had some rather low temperatures where 15w-40 and 20w-50 could be run.
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