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Nice - our Cruze has used M1 more than any other oil ... it only just reached the magic HM doorstep - no leaks.
What happens to NOACK with M1 HM ? GDI and all ...
What happens to NOACK with M1 HM ? GDI and all ...
Visc. @ 100°C after shearing: 10W30 HM vs 0W40
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Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
My M1 0W40 VOA showed virtually no viscosity loss in 4000mi of use.
12.61 cSt vs. 12.9 cSt published by Mobil
Was that on the latest FS version (available since Feb 2016) or was it possibly the older version (pre-FS) where viscosity was 13.6-13.9?
It was the older version, so I guess I need to make a correction:
Older M1 0W40 will shear a bit
I wonder if other engines do the same, almost all M1 0W40 UOA samples I've seen are from M3s...and they tend to settle between 12.20-12.80cSt
Originally Posted By: Leonardo629
My M1 0W40 VOA showed virtually no viscosity loss in 4000mi of use.
12.61 cSt vs. 12.9 cSt published by Mobil
Was that on the latest FS version (available since Feb 2016) or was it possibly the older version (pre-FS) where viscosity was 13.6-13.9?
It was the older version, so I guess I need to make a correction:
Older M1 0W40 will shear a bit
I wonder if other engines do the same, almost all M1 0W40 UOA samples I've seen are from M3s...and they tend to settle between 12.20-12.80cSt
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Quote:
I have not used M1 0w40, but in my Cruze 1.4 turbo M1 HM 5w30 had a KV100 of 11.1 cSt after 6k miles (90% highway). It starts out about 11.5 I think so I would consider that rather stable and would expect the HM 10w30 to be even more stable.
Do a uoa on each and let us know.
I would imagine it's KV100 at 2500 to 3500 miles possibly drop to 10ish cSt on its way to the V shaped bottom.
I have not used M1 0w40, but in my Cruze 1.4 turbo M1 HM 5w30 had a KV100 of 11.1 cSt after 6k miles (90% highway). It starts out about 11.5 I think so I would consider that rather stable and would expect the HM 10w30 to be even more stable.
Do a uoa on each and let us know.
I would imagine it's KV100 at 2500 to 3500 miles possibly drop to 10ish cSt on its way to the V shaped bottom.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: turboseize
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Are you sure ?
Some of the oil formulators here have commented that MB 229.5 is not too bad a OEM spec to meet, it's just A3/B4 with a lower Noack (10% Vs 13%), and I've looked up the recent ACEA sequences, and it's a 30 cycle test for A3/B3 & A3/B4.
Now the Euro HDEO's (eg E7 & E9) need to passs a 90 cycle test. Which until recently I thought this was all good. But then the oil formulator Joe commented that if a PCMO had to pass a 90 cycle shear test, in some respects it may make a worse oil. The reason being, it would require higher shear stability VII which are less efficient and therefore a higher VII load is required for the same viscosity grade. Which makes sense to me, it just never occurred to me until Joe mentioned it. But he makes oil for a living and I don't.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Are you sure ?
Some of the oil formulators here have commented that MB 229.5 is not too bad a OEM spec to meet, it's just A3/B4 with a lower Noack (10% Vs 13%), and I've looked up the recent ACEA sequences, and it's a 30 cycle test for A3/B3 & A3/B4.
Now the Euro HDEO's (eg E7 & E9) need to passs a 90 cycle test. Which until recently I thought this was all good. But then the oil formulator Joe commented that if a PCMO had to pass a 90 cycle shear test, in some respects it may make a worse oil. The reason being, it would require higher shear stability VII which are less efficient and therefore a higher VII load is required for the same viscosity grade. Which makes sense to me, it just never occurred to me until Joe mentioned it. But he makes oil for a living and I don't.
Hopefully we'll see some M1 0W40 FS UOAs soon after the holiday trips. I'm curious to see if the GTL formulation helps with shear, not that the old formulation is shear prone.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: turboseize
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Are you sure ?
Some of the oil formulators here have commented that MB 229.5 is not too bad a OEM spec to meet, it's just A3/B4 with a lower Noack (10% Vs 13%), and I've looked up the recent ACEA sequences, and it's a 30 cycle test for A3/B3 & A3/B4.
Now the Euro HDEO's (eg E7 & E9) need to passs a 90 cycle test. Which until recently I thought this was all good. But then the oil formulator Joe commented that if a PCMO had to pass a 90 cycle shear test, in some respects it may make a worse oil. The reason being, it would require higher shear stability VII which are less efficient and therefore a higher VII load is required for the same viscosity grade. Which makes sense to me, it just never occurred to me until Joe mentioned it. But he makes oil for a living and I don't.
Here are the requirements for different MB approvals:
http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/MB_Spec_EO_Service_Oils_2012.1.pdf
229.5 and 229.51 require 90 cycles, 229.3 only 30.
Originally Posted By: turboseize
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Are you sure ?
Some of the oil formulators here have commented that MB 229.5 is not too bad a OEM spec to meet, it's just A3/B4 with a lower Noack (10% Vs 13%), and I've looked up the recent ACEA sequences, and it's a 30 cycle test for A3/B3 & A3/B4.
Now the Euro HDEO's (eg E7 & E9) need to passs a 90 cycle test. Which until recently I thought this was all good. But then the oil formulator Joe commented that if a PCMO had to pass a 90 cycle shear test, in some respects it may make a worse oil. The reason being, it would require higher shear stability VII which are less efficient and therefore a higher VII load is required for the same viscosity grade. Which makes sense to me, it just never occurred to me until Joe mentioned it. But he makes oil for a living and I don't.
Here are the requirements for different MB approvals:
http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/MB_Spec_EO_Service_Oils_2012.1.pdf
229.5 and 229.51 require 90 cycles, 229.3 only 30.
Originally Posted By: turboseize
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: turboseize
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Are you sure ?
Some of the oil formulators here have commented that MB 229.5 is not too bad a OEM spec to meet, it's just A3/B4 with a lower Noack (10% Vs 13%), and I've looked up the recent ACEA sequences, and it's a 30 cycle test for A3/B3 & A3/B4.
Now the Euro HDEO's (eg E7 & E9) need to passs a 90 cycle test. Which until recently I thought this was all good. But then the oil formulator Joe commented that if a PCMO had to pass a 90 cycle shear test, in some respects it may make a worse oil. The reason being, it would require higher shear stability VII which are less efficient and therefore a higher VII load is required for the same viscosity grade. Which makes sense to me, it just never occurred to me until Joe mentioned it. But he makes oil for a living and I don't.
Here are the requirements for different MB approvals:
http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/MB_Spec_EO_Service_Oils_2012.1.pdf
229.5 and 229.51 require 90 cycles, 229.3 only 30.
Yes you are right, it's 90 cycles, I stand corrected.
BTW thanks for that link, it's an excellent document, I haven't seen it before.
Why is some in red and some in black? Is the red an update on the previous spec. ?
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: turboseize
Originally Posted By: SR5
Both the M1 oils are A3 rated, which means they need to pass a 30 cycle shear stability test, and "stay in grade".
Still my money is on the 10W30 HM, but I really don't know, just a guess.
M1 0w-40 is also approved MB 229.5 - so it has to stay in Grade even after 90 passes through the Bosch Diesel injector...
Are you sure ?
Some of the oil formulators here have commented that MB 229.5 is not too bad a OEM spec to meet, it's just A3/B4 with a lower Noack (10% Vs 13%), and I've looked up the recent ACEA sequences, and it's a 30 cycle test for A3/B3 & A3/B4.
Now the Euro HDEO's (eg E7 & E9) need to passs a 90 cycle test. Which until recently I thought this was all good. But then the oil formulator Joe commented that if a PCMO had to pass a 90 cycle shear test, in some respects it may make a worse oil. The reason being, it would require higher shear stability VII which are less efficient and therefore a higher VII load is required for the same viscosity grade. Which makes sense to me, it just never occurred to me until Joe mentioned it. But he makes oil for a living and I don't.
Here are the requirements for different MB approvals:
http://www.lubritecinc.com/PDF/MB_Spec_EO_Service_Oils_2012.1.pdf
229.5 and 229.51 require 90 cycles, 229.3 only 30.
Yes you are right, it's 90 cycles, I stand corrected.
BTW thanks for that link, it's an excellent document, I haven't seen it before.
Why is some in red and some in black? Is the red an update on the previous spec. ?
Red are Acea requirements, I believe.
Some MB specs were updated in 2012.
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