Vis calculator

[Sonataman]

Was playing around with it and wondered HOW does RL 0w20 specs stay thicker at 150c than Delo SAE20.

I've heard that mono's are 'newtonian' and multi's aren't, but if you graph them the multi changes less, or has a flatter line.

Seems the 0w20 is more 'newtonian' than the SAE20.

 

[dparm]

Bill Garnier of Renewable Lubricants flat-out told me that modern mono-grades are getting so good that they often qualify as multigrade. I wouldn't assume that Delo SAE20 is a straight-20.

 

[Gabe]

Interesting question. Whenever you traditionally think of a liquid, it will be a Newtonian fluid.

When you say that you graph them, what exactly do you mean?? Are you plotting the viscosity as a function of temperature??

 

[dparm]

He's probably using this:

http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html

 

[CATERHAM]

RL stays thicker when extrapolated out to 150C because it has a higher 166 VI to the straight Delo 20wt.
But the real reason RL 0W-20 is thicker at hot operating temp's is because it has a HTHSV of 3.0cP which really makes it a light 30wt oil.

 

[TallPaul]

Also, I heard that all but the 5w40 Redline oil is straight weight oil. That is, the 0w20 Redline is likely a straight 20 with no VII additive, but because their base oil is so awesome, it meets the multigrade criteria. Now that is a KILLER motor oil in my book! I have Redline 5w20 in my Ranger.

 

[dparm]

RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?

 

[OVERKILL]

From what I recall reading, Visc calcs aren't accurate below 0C.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

It my understanding that if an oil meets an API multigrade spec than it must be labeled as such. Dont confuse high VI oil with multigrade which looks at CCS and mRv #'s to be w/in a specific margin at sub zero temps. There may be a "no VII" kicker in the requirement for HDEO lubes to be SAE monograde also, IIRC.

 

[Drivebelt]

Quote:
Viscosity chart

Newtonian Fluids

The viscosity of a Newtonian fluid is dependent only on temperature but not on shear rate and time.

Non-Newtonian fluids, time dependent

The viscosity of the fluid is dependent on temperature, shear rate and time.



A non-Newtonian fluid behaves differently when sheared. Both Newtonian and non-Newtonian fluids change viscosity with temperature.

The viscosity change of motor oils due to temperature change depends on the viscosity index. Since RL 0W-20 has a higher VI than SAE 20 it will change viscosity less due to temperature -- assuming temperature is the only factor involved.

 

[Sonataman]

Temp was the only criteria and I have read that in the absence of shear, a multi grade ACTS newtonian since it changes less in the common temp ranges.

So if a multi has VII's which permanently shear, then it becomes less newtonian?

RL lists the HTHS of 0w20 at 2.7, so is it 2.7 or 3.0?

Not sure what the Delo 400 SAE 20 HTHS# is, but assume it's higher than the PCMO since it is an HDEO.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: dparm
RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?
Curious. Show me the #'s. RLI are required to grade multigrades as a "5w-" if it falls betwixt 0W and 10w appellations if they give the oil a API classification. It's not a marketing decision.

UPDATE: RLI HDEO: I got an impressive mrv of 13,000 cP at -25c. for the low ash 15w40 It has to assumed it will not pass 60K cP at -30c due to API labeling reqmnts.

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: dparm
RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?
Curious. Show me the #'s. RLI are required to grade multigrades as a "5w-" if it falls betwixt 0W and 10w appellations if they give the oil a API classification. It's not a marketing decision.

UPDATE: RLI HDEO: I got an impressive mrv of 13,000 cP at -25c. for the low ash 15w40 It has to assumed it will not pass 60K cP at -30c due to API labeling reqmnts.



I'm only repeating what Bill told me. He said they label it as 15w40 for marketing reasons -- the HDEO crowd is looking for that specific viscosity.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: dparm
RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?


REDLINE ROCKS!

I used to get Valvoline SAE 20 which some of us here had figured works out to a 10w20.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: dparm
RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?


REDLINE ROCKS!

I used to get Valvoline SAE 20 which some of us here had figured works out to a 10w20.



RLI is Renewable Lubricants Incorporated, not Redline, who's abbreviation is RL.

 

[TallPaul]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TallPaul
Originally Posted By: dparm
RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?


REDLINE ROCKS!

I used to get Valvoline SAE 20 which some of us here had figured works out to a 10w20.



RLI is Renewable Lubricants Incorporated, not Redline, who's abbreviation is RL.
Ahk, my blunder. RLI Rocks too!

 

[dparm]

Red Line rocks too though.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: dparm
RLI's 15w40 is actually a 5w40, and is borderlining on being a 0w40. How's that for quality formulation?
Curious. Show me the #'s. RLI are required to grade multigrades as a "5w-" if it falls betwixt 0W and 10w appellations if they give the oil a API classification. It's not a marketing decision.

UPDATE: RLI HDEO: I got an impressive mrv of 13,000 cP at -25c. for the low ash 15w40 It has to assumed it will not pass 60K cP at -30c due to API labeling reqmnts.



I'm only repeating what Bill told me. He said they label it as 15w40 for marketing reasons -- the HDEO crowd is looking for that specific viscosity.
It would seem they are in violation of API licensing agreement and SAE requirements. But if they are NOT api licensed I suppose RLI can do what they want. I would bet it DOESNT meet a 5w criterion though.

 

[Sonataman]

I graphed some mono's and it is interesting that a 50 equals a 20 vis at 30-35c higher temps.

I've read some state that they see 10-15f higher temps with a xw30 vs xw20.

So if thicker oil does run hotter, then you are loosing some of the benefit due to.......

 

[A_Harman]

Yep, go ahead and say it: Some of the benefit of higher viscosity from thicker oil is lost because the thicker oil runs hotter in the engine.