Violation of the 1st Amendment

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Pablo

Pablo

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Please let's NOT get into a R vs. L or a C v L or a D vs. R argument. This post is NOT about politics. This is not a kooky right wing conspiracy theory. This REALLY happened. It's about erosion or removal of our given Constitutional rights. The EX-IRS head yesterday said there was no violations, no laws broken, just poor customer service. How (if true) could this NOT be violation of at least the 1st Amendment?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ts-trained.html

http://www.fox19.com/story/22277042/4-cincinnati-irs-workers-named-could-they-face-federal-charges

http://www.fox19.com/story/22286522/rc-5th-cincinnati-irs-agent-allegedly-connected-to-scandal
 
In short: People really need to wake up. Now. They are not a friend to what we were founded on.

Excessively large. Excessively controlling. Needing excessive ways to keep feeding the excessive power.
 
If a nonprofit is "nonprofitable" because it educates, there should be an audit trail that someone was educated. Should be lots of ways of accomplishing this, perhaps alumni could volunteer that it was a great experience?

This isn't about the 1st amendment-- they can say what they want-- it's about asking for documentation that they are in fact doing the specifically tax exempt things the law dictates. The controversy is that only specific groups were targeted for a "severe audit". It's hitting the news because rich white guys are involved; I don't see it much different from minorities getting profiled and frisked over and over again walking through the hood.

We get this with real estate tax appraisals on purportedly exempt medical office buildings. It's questioned if patients are treated there and if there has been any charity care.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If a nonprofit is "nonprofitable" because it educates, there should be an audit trail that someone was educated. Should be lots of ways of accomplishing this, perhaps alumni could volunteer that it was a great experience?

This isn't about the 1st amendment-- they can say what they want-- it's about asking for documentation that they are in fact doing the specifically tax exempt things the law dictates. The controversy is that only specific groups were targeted for a "severe audit". It's hitting the news because rich white guys are involved; I don't see it much different from minorities getting profiled and frisked over and over again walking through the hood.

We get this with real estate tax appraisals on purportedly exempt medical office buildings. It's questioned if patients are treated there and if there has been any charity care.



So I will take your post as correct. Is it OK just to ask one side and not ask the other? Is it not a violation to stall this or that organization just because of the name or lawful beliefs?
 
'Lynchpins of Liberty' vs. virtually every institution of 'higher learning' in America (except Hillsdale College)....kind of like David vs. Goliath..

The President reminds me of Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes..."I know nothing"....
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If a nonprofit is "nonprofitable" because it educates, there should be an audit trail that someone was educated. Should be lots of ways of accomplishing this, perhaps alumni could volunteer that it was a great experience?

This isn't about the 1st amendment-- they can say what they want-- it's about asking for documentation that they are in fact doing the specifically tax exempt things the law dictates. The controversy is that only specific groups were targeted for a "severe audit". It's hitting the news because rich white guys are involved; I don't see it much different from minorities getting profiled and frisked over and over again walking through the hood.

We get this with real estate tax appraisals on purportedly exempt medical office buildings. It's questioned if patients are treated there and if there has been any charity care.



Exactly.
Groups don't get to advertise themselves as political wolves to their members and then present themselves as educational sheep to the IRS.
The hypocrisy of this entire event is breathtaking.
I wish that the executive branch folks would grow a pair and defend the IRS for merely doing its job.
Political advocacy is not and never has been a basis for exempt status.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: eljefino
If a nonprofit is "nonprofitable" because it educates, there should be an audit trail that someone was educated. Should be lots of ways of accomplishing this, perhaps alumni could volunteer that it was a great experience?

This isn't about the 1st amendment-- they can say what they want-- it's about asking for documentation that they are in fact doing the specifically tax exempt things the law dictates. The controversy is that only specific groups were targeted for a "severe audit". It's hitting the news because rich white guys are involved; I don't see it much different from minorities getting profiled and frisked over and over again walking through the hood.

We get this with real estate tax appraisals on purportedly exempt medical office buildings. It's questioned if patients are treated there and if there has been any charity care.



So I will take your post as correct. Is it OK just to ask one side and not ask the other? Is it not a violation to stall this or that organization just because of the name or lawful beliefs?


I wouldn't go so far as violating the 1st amendment; they are investigating specific groups. More of a 14th amendment "equal protection under the law" issue.

Corralling protest groups into "free speech zones" blocks away from what they're protesting is more of an assault on the 1st amendment, but like your example, it's a shade of grey and not black and white.
 
When the groups that are anti-whatever apply to that same organization they're against for an exempt status, they should expect more scrutiny.

The whole debate takes away from the larger and more important debate about how we have conflated $$$ with free speech these days, which historically has not been the case.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
When the groups that are anti-whatever apply to that same organization they're against for an exempt status, they should expect more scrutiny.



But not all the groups were anti-IRS. Some were religious (hence my question about the 1st), all were simply right of center.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/congressma...article/2529924

Yes the hypocrisy is pretty amazing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/i...e767_story.html

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/17/lerners-admission-was-pre-planned-public-disclosure/
 
There were many more groups targeted besides the tea party people.
There is a certain irony that some of the groups targeted were trying to warn the country about the dangers of an overly large and unaccountable Washington.
Then hide the investigation until after the election.
 
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Originally Posted By: Turk
In short: People really need to wake up. Now. They are not a friend to what we were founded on.

Excessively large. Excessively controlling. Needing excessive ways to keep feeding the excessive power.


Yes. and no coincidence this went on from the midterms in 2010 till after the 2012 elections without a peep from the leaders
 
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
There is a huge allegation that this wiretapping included the CONGRESS!

This is worse than it appears...

....oh yes and there is that AP wire tap story as you say Stevesrt8
 
As the layers of onion of the IRS scandal get peeled away we will find it goes higher and higher up and ultimately heads will roll, but not the biggest head. Ignorance is admission.
 
I'm appalled at the behavior of the IRS.I'm a bit perturbed at the nonchalant attitude expressed by some.Targeting these groups was a way of limiting political opposition to the incumbent by not granting non-profit status that was granted in days to left leaning groups that supported the incumbent.The IRS is supposed to be neutral to all.
 
This is a Test....and only a Test....

First, we will create an issue/situation for each Amendment, Article, or Right under the Constitution. If the American People are lulled, blinded by a cloak of insecurity or instability of their believe in their Rights....the next phase will take place in 2016 if full control of the House and Senate are taken!

Folks...in regards to Pablos question....read the First Amendment!

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

This story will be continued....no it is not a fiction, or fantasy story....it is a real life novel of the American values and given Rights!
 
Pablo,

Yes. 1A violation, equal protection violation, Hatch act violation, and probably section 1983 violations.

The 1A violation is particularly onerous, because of the chilling effect on contributions. I didn't donate to the local, although I would have liked to, because I didn't want the IRS breathing down my neck. I got audited back in '05 and it is VERY expensive to buy your peace with the IRS. I didn't want that again, especially when it is over political animus, not actual taxes.

Anyone with a pulse knew that, given the character of the current administration, every means, fair and foul, would be deployed against opponents.

People should go to jail, but govt is set up to make it near impossible to send its employees to jail, even for gross malfeasance. These guys that lied to Congress may get some heat though.
 
Were you guys this worked up about never finding WMDs?

Starting a war based on a fallacy that killed thousands of American lives and many times more foreign civilians.

But Benghazi is worse, right?
 
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