Asking in case anyone has overlapping experience with these three tires or similar offers. I know they are from different classes or categories. I've been using dedicated snow tires for decades (generally paired with dedicated UHP summers. In the 90s, all season summers). I ramble here about what I've observed over the last 25 years or so and why I've never had a winter tire that I've said "I'm getting these again!". I or immediate family have run:
We don't get much cold "squeaky snow", which even the several-year old M3s could excel in. My R2s tear this stuff up the odd time we get it. Sometimes there's weeks in a row where it's nothing but brine/wet. If it's dry it is either a major high speed highway or very cold. The brine tends to pull moisture from the air and keep the roads wet indefinitely until it gets below -10C then dry areas emerge.
So, it seems like my winters aren't "extreme" enough for Hakka offerings to shine. If it was consistently colder, they would probably be a no brainer. On the other hand, I've had serious deficiencies with every "sport" winter tire I've tried, pushing me back towards "full" winter tires. Granted they were both from Dunlop. The Blizzak formula was better all around than I thought they would be, but the half-life tends to steer me away from them.
So, I am looking at my R2s and I'm down around 6-7/32" on the rears. This could be their last season. Are the PA4/5s good enough when I get winter weather but will really sharpen things back up in the warm, wet? Lots of people seem to like the Viking7 too. Or just go with whatever Nokian is selling next fall (R3? R4?)
EDIT: and I'm not talking about tearing it up aggressively all winter. Yep, I know you "slow down" in the winter. I'm just talking about the occasional 5-6/10ths driving to make it through that advanced green, or not feel like I lose so much braking to squirmy tires, nor that I need to hover around like a limo driver with unrestrained passengers in the back sipping martinis etc...
- Michelin XMS100*
- Michelin Alpin (the originals)*
- Dunlop Wintersport M3*
- Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2
- Pirelli Snowsport 210
- Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSi*
- Bridgestone Blizzak WS60*
- Dunlop WinterSport 3D*
- Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2*
- Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 SUV
- Nokian Hakkapeliitta R3 SUV
- The Alpins had effortless winter traction, so much so that the only thing that ever stopped me was heavy slop so deep that it lifted the tire up off the ground. But, highway handling felt unsafe at 105kph and over - delayed reaction, overshoot, felt like they blew up like balloons. I did a lot of Interstate-class driving at the time and needed to fix this, so...
- The Dunlop M3s were heralded in reviews as an amazing winter tire. Their dry grip was good, handling confidence good, braking good, winter traction for the first season was also good. The E39s particular alignment/suspension wore all of the edges off of the sipes and I was left with no winter traction despite lots of tread depth. After sliding through a few stop signs while people around me were having no trouble, I threw them out with 9/32" on them and got Hakkas (also had a baby - prioritize safety)
- The Hakka RSis had great winter traction where the worst of conditions felt like driving on a gravel road. They totally destroyed non snow/ice braking and handling though unless it was really cold. At -15C they came alive. In the dry at -20C they felt like UHP summers in their prime - tight, snappy, grippy, progressive roll off and fantastic winter traction. Above freezing in the wet they rolled off so bad it was like driving on an oil slick. If it was 7-10C and raining (this happens occassionally during our winters) it was like driving on glare ice. I stayed home.
- The WS60s came with the E90 I bought when my E39 was totaled so I didn't "choose" them. All around they did well. Better than I thought they would in the dry/wet. But - they still had the Blizzak thing where only half the tread depth is true winter so they didn't do "well" for all that long and really rolled off winter grip quickly.
- The Dunlop 3Ds came with my F10. They did OK in the wet/dry. They had good winter grip when accelerating, but hugely less so for braking. To the point where I became quite surprised how little braking traction I had compared to my acceleration and turning, catching me out a couple of times but luckily hitting nothing. I did not observe odd sipe wear to immediately explain this. The compound started to age and dry. Combined with poor braking I got rid of them before they were worn out and got the R2s.
- The Hakka R2s are currently on the car. Nokian fixed whatever was wrong with the RSi compound in the "warm wet". The non-SUV R2s really impact dry/wet braking and steering response, the SUV version seems to have designed around this with the continuous center rib and Aramid construction but the SUV version isn't made for my F10. The R2s aren't great in the wet, generally make the car understeer a lot, and I spend the winter tip-toeing around even on nice dry days because they just sound like they're tearing apart. When it snows, they've been fantastic combined with AWD, at least in the first couple of seasons. I actually look forward to a trip out in the snow as long as there wasn't a lot of congestion.
We don't get much cold "squeaky snow", which even the several-year old M3s could excel in. My R2s tear this stuff up the odd time we get it. Sometimes there's weeks in a row where it's nothing but brine/wet. If it's dry it is either a major high speed highway or very cold. The brine tends to pull moisture from the air and keep the roads wet indefinitely until it gets below -10C then dry areas emerge.
So, it seems like my winters aren't "extreme" enough for Hakka offerings to shine. If it was consistently colder, they would probably be a no brainer. On the other hand, I've had serious deficiencies with every "sport" winter tire I've tried, pushing me back towards "full" winter tires. Granted they were both from Dunlop. The Blizzak formula was better all around than I thought they would be, but the half-life tends to steer me away from them.
So, I am looking at my R2s and I'm down around 6-7/32" on the rears. This could be their last season. Are the PA4/5s good enough when I get winter weather but will really sharpen things back up in the warm, wet? Lots of people seem to like the Viking7 too. Or just go with whatever Nokian is selling next fall (R3? R4?)
EDIT: and I'm not talking about tearing it up aggressively all winter. Yep, I know you "slow down" in the winter. I'm just talking about the occasional 5-6/10ths driving to make it through that advanced green, or not feel like I lose so much braking to squirmy tires, nor that I need to hover around like a limo driver with unrestrained passengers in the back sipping martinis etc...
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