So you don’t see the issue in dumping something that’s not even a lubricant into your engine? How does this differ from the people who are willing to dump ATF or kerosene into their crankcase? None of them are engine oils either… how are you even able to verify that an engine flush is “flushing”? What are the measurable results?
Seems you are just fishing, you should probably do some better research about the facts of the products in question.
Im not fishing… you’re the one who came in here proclaiming the “incredible benefits” of engine flushes, when several senior mechanics and even an oil manufacturer have commented that engine flushes aren’t needed and can cause harm… so the ball’s in your court. I already staked my claim on oils that include esters and ANs, which are shown by multiple studies in multiple industries that these are the proper way to keep engines clean and to clean ones with previous deposits.
Yes it is most of the motoring public here have no issues with engine flushes its not a 'thing' like in the US it seems.
gccem.com.au
www.aftermarket.com.au
amsoil.com.au
Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you with a different view. I don't think I made any 'incredible benefit' statements.
I’m not upset at all, and I’m fine with different views. But the general idea is when you make a claim, that you have something to back it up with, other than “I poured it in and the engine didn’t blow up”, that’s all.
Here, read this thread when you get a few minutes, it’s really informative and has direct interaction from a proven oil manufacturer in it:
Yes, that's what we are discussing, engines that may have some deposits inside. What I'm looking for is a technical reason why one would choose to use a flush instead of a more gentle cleaning product, like an oil with AN's and/or esters.
Yes, I picked up on the fact that this appears to be very common where you live. It's not very common here. As I noted above, I'm looking for a technical reason; a justification on why one would use a flush product, which goes against the advice given by probably every OEM on the planet, versus just using an oil that can clean, something they don't advise against. I'm also sceptical of the very universal claim that "more likely than not the engine will benefit from this type of cleaning", as that seems more like a sales pitch rather than a fact supported by amassed statistical data.
Can you expand on this?I will direct you to the Valvoline engine flush for further information. If you do not wish to use engine flush that is fine you most likely don't need to because you maintain and buy top tier products for your vehicle. However, I have run hundreds of flushes through customers cars and never once had an issue. Moreover, some of the benefits I have seen have been excellent especially in regard to its commercial purpose (see below).
Engine Oil System Cleaner - Valvoline™ Global Europe - EN
Valvoline Engine Oil System Cleaner is a superior cleaning solution formulated with ingredients of the highest quality to ensure flawless performance. It helps remove contaminants and disperse sludge and soluble dirt inside diesel and petrol engines. Valvoline Engine Oil System Cleaner is...www.valvoline.com
Some light reading there are studies out there. Feel free to research.
That in no way answers the question (nor did you bother to address the rest of my rather lengthy post). That's somebody's college paper testing varnish removal on a rig that simulates a gas turbine:
Haha there is no onus. Feel free to research I have provided some good material. I don't think you will ever use an engine flush no matter what I put up here, but I respect that.
I mean, there is if you want others to ascribe any merit to the claim you've made. If you don't, that's fine, but then I'd expect regular pushback on this subject in the future as a result of that decision.
Again, that's not my responsibility, I'm not the one who has made the claim here with respect to the merit of flushes, you are.
Quite likely. I simply fail the see the utility of them, I see them as a money grab and you've presented nothing that has made any inroads into swaying my position on that.
It's not a cherry pick, the testing in that college paper was designed around turbines and compressors, per the sections I quoted. The overarching observation that varnish formation extends beyond that scope; beyond the scope of the test mechanism, doesn't change the nature of the test.
MolaKule said:
Feel free to research I have provided some good material. I don't think you will ever use an engine flush no matter what I put up here, but I respect that. If you actually do want some more data etc you could call Valvoline or Amsoil for verification because it seems you are only interested in data I have recorded for the efficiency of the products.
O/K, it’s obvious he has no intent nor capability of providing any scientific proof to support his baseless claims.
At what stage am I required to produce evidence for my claims. The claims are made on the bottle and within my links etc. I am not an authority and neither are any of you. We can sit here and pretend to critically review evidence on an oil forum lol, when their is no authority here. If you wish to have a better understanding of the products you should seek to find out through the manufacturers.
You’ve been given numerous non-opinion pieces of evidence that flushes are questionable at the very best; vehicle manufacturers, oil manufacturers, chemical experts that have worked in industry for decades, of which the latter two groups have posted at various times on this board numerous times stating that fully-formulated oils that meet the engine’s requirements is all that should ever be placed in an engine’s crankcase.
That is preposterous. So @High Performance Lubricants, @MolaKule, @Tom NJ, Solarant, Bruce...etc are all written off by you (your words) because they participate on this forum. The fact that they are unbiased (none of them produce or sell flushes) makes them unqualified to speak on the subject? I'm speechless, I cannot believe what you've written here, absolutely unreal.
I mean, they can, there are several experts who participate here, I quoted one of them. However, you noted that your position is to write off their opinion because they participate here (this is a beautiful paradox, appeal to authority and then dismiss said authority because it participates within the medium that the appeal was made). If we are calling out things that are absurd, this truly takes the cake.
Its not up to me to provide evidence. You are saying their is no evidence to support flushes because 3 professionals agree with you. What about the professionals who are pro flush and manufacture the chemicals have you considered them. You can just deny them because you only want to make a point. You don't wish to learn anything because you have found you feel comfortable with 3 professional answers that support your viewpoint and all on one forum that you personally know. Surely, you have proved you have critical thinking skills but still you cant comprehend that aspect of it. Lots of 'experts' say the world is flat too. But other experts say it isn't. You are leaving the core concept of critical thinking off the desk.
