Varnish: What's the downside?

[TiGeo]

I think you came in late, even with the 4-page buffer

I thin O/K and I are roughly on the same page- flushes may or may not work without harming the engine; all are certainly NOT created equal. If you want to use a flush, go right ahead… we’re just not going to recommend doing something to your engine that the manufacturer clearly says to avoid and has voided warranties for using.

Now that we’ve got HPL available, there’s really zero need to ever use a flush. Fill your sump with HPL and put a 99%@20u filter on it, and you will definitely end up with a cleaner engine without any additional risks. But, if you like living dangerously… experiment away.

Personally I come here for the explosions & horror stories, just like nobody watches NASCAR for the actual racing. They watch for the potential carnage!

As to the OE, what do you think they would say to the HPL EC product? I can tell you - "not recommended". It would impact your warranty as such. Anything beyond regular as-approved/spec'd motor oil is not kosher by any manufacturer I've ever heard of including additives, flushes, off-spec oil (including viscosity) etc....they will all be treated exactly the same if you blow up your engine and show them that detailed receipt when they ask. Of course the HPL product is just an oil so a bit different than the solvent flush products but in the end, call Subaru and ask them how they feel about running a straight 30W oil in your engine...

What I'm doing is hardly experimenting anymore than the folks touting the HPL EC here. Where is the hard evidence/scientific testing that many on BITOG demand about anything like this? It's not here. It's really just the same feel-good product that folks want to work so badly as many other products discussed ad-nauseum on the BITOG that in the end, are all based on a "hope" that they work and do what they are sold as doing with all sorts of "testing" etc. here trying to "prove" that they are working better than some other stuff.

Now back to using my HPL EC, HPL oil, LM Engine Flush, MoS2, Ceratec, and anything else I can experiment with!

 

[TiGeo]

A few from google and old BITOG threads:

https://www.justanswer.com/ford-lincoln/5bvfz-lincoln-town-car-signature-oil-pump-clogged-using.html

Engine Flush / Clean

Hi Just wondering has anyone used this stuff? I just bought the car so I was thinking of doing an engine flush/clean before my next oil change. Does this stuff work? Is it trustworthy? Anyone with any experience using this stuff? If you used it whats your feedback? From the little I know...

www.audizine.com

Engine Flush Question

My 2007 Prius has 215,000 miles. I was going to use Liqui Moly Engine Flush. 1. I was going to drain and fill with fresh oil, do the Flush, do a fresh filter and oil change 2. I'm running T6 5w40 due to oil consumption with 5w30 3. For the Flush fill and drain, should I use the 5w40? Or a...

bobistheoilguy.com

Engine Flush Systems

Today my wife took in her Civic for a regular oil change and rotation.

forums.edmunds.com

Is it worth using Engine Flush when changing oil? - Page 1 - Engines & Drivetrain - PistonHeads UK

Engine blows up after engine flush

Help, I received an oil change and engine flush at a local valvoline and three days later on the interstate with grandbaby the car lunged and i barely made it to the side of the interstate. Once taken to mechanic we had motor dropped and they stated most likely engine flush did damage but really...

forums.noria.com

Do NOT engine flush

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/flushservices.html watch the video. not much text

www.mycarforum.com

New warning from Hyundai about flush oil additive.

EHOW SUMMARY OF FLUSH USE DANGERS. NOTE: This warning from Hyundai is very similar to the one from GM in 2011. EHOW has written a good short summary, so here is the text if you don't like links: Engine Failure The most common danger of engine flushes is complete engine breakdown. This is...

bobistheoilguy.com

From a GM TSB in response to quick lube places pushing flushes:


Classic NBC Undercover investigation:


Definitely enough stern verbiage from Honda, GM, Hyundai...etc that it should at least cause one to take pause.

Some interesting info...a lot of Jiffy Lube type stuff that has questionable info/data about the condition of the engines, maintenance, and what exactly the "flush" involved...

In this chat, I am referring to over-the-counter consumer products, like the Liquimoly flush product. For the over-the-counter products, I would be shocked if anyone could find direct evidence that one of these products, used as directed, caused any harm or drama in someone's car. I can find links to sources showing improved compression on older engines with the LM product in particular which would indicate some ring-freeing was achieved using it which to me suggests that there is some merit to it. I like the idea of preventing this in the first place so the HPL EC product seems like a winner there and I have run in both of my VW wagons but we have no definitive proof that I've seen here of any improvements after using it that folks have achieved.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

As to the OE, what do you think they would say to the HPL EC product? I can tell you - "not recommended". It would impact your warranty as such. Anything beyond regular as-approved/spec'd motor oil is not kosher by any manufacturer I've ever heard of including additives, flushes, off-spec oil (including viscosity) etc....they will all be treated exactly the same if you blow up your engine and show them that detailed receipt when they ask. Of course the HPL product is just an oil so a bit different than the solvent flush products but in the end, call Subaru and ask them how they feel about running a straight 30W oil in your engine...

What I'm doing is hardly experimenting anymore than the folks touting the HPL EC here. Where is the hard evidence/scientific testing that many on BITOG demand about anything like this? It's not here. It's really just the same feel-good product that folks want to work so badly as many other products discussed ad-nauseum on the BITOG that in the end, are all based on a "hope" that they work and do what they are sold as doing with all sorts of "testing" etc. here trying to "prove" that they are working better than some other stuff.

Now back to using my HPL EC, HPL oil, LM Engine Flush, MoS2, Ceratec, and anything else I can experiment with!

I’m not arguing with you; I’ve been in your shoes personally, I used to use additives and other “enhancers”, but after talking with Dave @High Performance Lubricants I’ve determined that everything my engine needs- great protection, great compounds, great cleaning power- will all come directly from using their PCMO. I’ve switched over 3 of the 4 vehicles in my direct care to HPL engine oils with other drivetrain fluids to follow; I’m not switching my Impreza yet because the esters and AN would likely accelerate the minor leaks from the oil passages.

Even though I understand the EC is really just a well-formulated engine oil (NOT a flush/cleaner like most competitors are), I’m just using the PCMO. It provides everything a boy needs to be happy; dexos or API licenses only matter within warranty. And if you’re doing what HPL prescribes for sampling & OCI, the only way you’d need a warranty is from a manufacturing failure, not oil related.

 

[TiGeo]

I’m not arguing with you; I’ve been in your shoes personally, I used to use additives and other “enhancers”, but after talking with Dave @High Performance Lubricants I’ve determined that everything my engine needs- great protection, great compounds, great cleaning power- will all come directly from using their PCMO. I’ve switched over 3 of the 4 vehicles in my direct care to HPL engine oils with other drivetrain fluids to follow; I’m not switching my Impreza yet because the esters and AN would likely accelerate the minor leaks from the oil passages.

Even though I understand the EC is really just a well-formulated engine oil (NOT a flush/cleaner like most competitors are), I’m just using the PCMO. It provides everything a boy needs to be happy; dexos or API licenses only matter within warranty. And if you’re doing what HPL prescribes for sampling & OCI, the only way you’d need a warranty is from a manufacturing failure, not oil related.

This post is spot-on. I too am running the HPL Euro blend in my Sportwagen that gets the snot beat out of it. I plan on running it in my W8 as well after the next change which will be in about 12 mos with the current LM fill - easy for me, I can just buy bulk Euro 5W40 from Dave. As to arguing, I'd just be careful saying that product A is not ok with the OE/warranty as you did above and then in the same post tout product B which also isn't ok with the OE...that was the point of the meme above....a bit of classic BITOG hypocracy.

 

[ragtoplvr]

my 2004 lesabre and my 2002 Astro both used only M1 oil and both had no visible sludge but did have healthy amount of varnish, which did not seem to affect engine life. My 2009 BMWr1200 GS also using M1 with over 70K on it, and the previous BMW with well over 100K has ZERO varnish, under the valve covers the metal looked just like New aluminum and magnesium castings with dirty oil on them. Ran hard at time, in hot weather air cooled. Both of them would exceed 275F oil temp in traffic in the summer. Is the magnesium interfering with the varnish reaction. Or do high oil temp actually prevent varnish. These engines only have a vent, no PCV, just timed vent and oil vapor sep. So does the lack of fresh air purge cause varnish.

Makes no sense. Any ideas

 

[Bill7]

my 2004 lesabre and my 2002 Astro both used only M1 oil and both had no visible sludge but did have healthy amount of varnish, which did not seem to affect engine life. My 2009 BMWr1200 GS also using M1 with over 70K on it, and the previous BMW with well over 100K has ZERO varnish, under the valve covers the metal looked just like New aluminum and magnesium castings with dirty oil on them. Ran hard at time, in hot weather air cooled. Both of them would exceed 275F oil temp in traffic in the summer. Is the magnesium interfering with the varnish reaction. Or do high oil temp actually prevent varnish. These engines only have a vent, no PCV, just timed vent and oil vapor sep. So does the lack of fresh air purge cause varnish.

Makes no sense. Any ideas

Please let us know your oil change interval in miles/months, and if these vehicles made primarily short trips.

 

[Kruse]

I saw a video put out by Melling that said just a very small amount of varnish on the oil pickup tube screen would cut oil flow by 50%. Does varnish normally build up on the screen? I never really was too worried about existing varnish and the need to drastically remove it (with the exception of good oil and more frequent oil changes) until I saw that video.

 

[RDY4WAR]

I saw a video put out by Melling that said just a very small amount of varnish on the oil pickup tube screen would cut oil flow by 50%. Does varnish normally build up on the screen? I never really was too worried about existing varnish and the need to drastically remove it (with the exception of good oil and more frequent oil changes) until I saw that video.

Varnish cutting oil flow by 50%? No. That sounds more like some marketing guy doesn't know the difference between varnish and sludge and chose the wrong word.

 

[Pablo]

Plus, that build up of varnish submerged in moving oil? Something else must be seriously wrong for that to occur.

 

[Kruse]

Varnish cutting oil flow by 50%? No. That sounds more like some marketing guy doesn't know the difference between varnish and sludge and chose the wrong word.

Could be. Looks like sludge, but the wording was varnish. Still, the video was put out by a major aftermarket oil component company.
It's a short video.

 

[ragtoplvr]

Please let us know your oil change interval in miles/months, and if these vehicles made primarily short trips.

10,000 km +-1000km. Work commute 12 miles, highway speeds, no.warmup weekend often a 400 mile ride redline often.