Valvoline says their syn contains PAO

[LoneRanger]

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/full-synthetic-motor-oil/

#19 and 20. The FAQ references Valvoline Synpower. The question would seem to be does this extend to their full synthetic 4T motorcycle 10W40 and 20W50. In any case, it is nice to see one of the retail shelf brands actually publish that their syn still contains PAO.

I salute them for this in a time when their competitors dodge and skirt this question better than a politician, even Amsoil seems to evade the question these days.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
In any case, it is nice to see one of the retail shelf brands actually publish that their syn still contains PAO.

Castrol also says that their Edge contains PAO. But it's rather useless info because you don't know how much. For all we know, it could be 1%.

 

[tig1]

Valvoline still doesn't tell any more than most other companies. For example XM reports that their oils have PAO as well(here is a link), but that's not all the base is these days. M1 also contains esters and other base stocks to produce a better quality base than PAO alone.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Mineral_Oil_Question.aspx

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 also contains esters and other base stocks to produce a better quality base than PAO alone.

Agreed. No point focusing on one particular ingredient. It's the end product's performance that matters.

 

[LoneRanger]

Bikes need as much PAO as possible in the base because PAO is more shear stable than Grp III in the gearbox.

 

[Quattro Pete]

OK, so how much PAO is in that Valvoline stuff?

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Bikes need as much PAO as possible in the base because PAO is more shear stable than Grp III in the gearbox.

Base oils are much more shear-stable than polymeric VIIs, so shear stability of motor oils depends almost entirely on the shear stability of the VIIs. Thankfully the percent drop in HTHS viscosity of used oils, from shearing alone, should be approximately 1/2 of the percent drop in kinematic viscosity at 100C. In other words, shearing is about 1/2 as bad as many people think it is.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
OK, so how much PAO is in that Valvoline stuff?


Don't know. All I'm saying is Valvoline at least has the stones to put in writing that they still formulate with PAO, and publish the answer, when asked. When asked, other brands publish an answer about propreitary information and performance of the finished product, which is true of course but they could just answer the question in a straight forward manner like Valvoline (Ashland) has done. Do you use PAO is after all a yes or no question. And Valvoline has said yes in a time when most competitors tip toe around and never say yes or no, citing protection of propreitary info and product performance instead. Even Amsoil does it now.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Bikes need as much PAO as possible in the base because PAO is more shear stable than Grp III in the gearbox.


Would you say the same thing regarding turbos? In other words would a syn. oil containing higher amounts of PAO be more stable in a turbo engine?

 

[shDK]

I don,t know if it,s the same in the US synpower. But if you look up European synpower on there German website. It,s sold as vollsynthetishe. So it really should be a fully synthetic oil.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: tig1
M1 also contains esters and other base stocks to produce a better quality base than PAO alone.

Agreed. No point focusing on one particular ingredient. It's the end product's performance that matters.


Absolutely. Too many caught up in the wife's tale.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted By: shDK
I don,t know if it,s the same in the US synpower. But if you look up European synpower on there German website. It,s sold as vollsynthetishe. So it really should be a fully synthetic oil.


Interesting ! Germany does require it to be Group IV or V in order to be labeled fully synthetic or vollsynthetishe in German.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: shDK
I don,t know if it,s the same in the US synpower. But if you look up European synpower on there German website. It,s sold as vollsynthetishe. So it really should be a fully synthetic oil.

Not the same product. The technical specs on the US product are different, despite being sold under the same name (Synpower 4T). The European version has higher VI and lower pour point. We in the US always get shafted.

 

[LoneRanger]

FWIW I think Liqui Moly might be doing the same thing. For instance their bike oil Racing Synth 4T 10W50 in the US can be bought as a 5 liter jug english language label but as low as $37, however, the euro market (label in German) gets a 4 liter jug for about $50 price tag. Pricng seems to suggest the US version might contain less, if any, PAO. I inquired with a vendor about this very situation on the 5 liter jug of Liqui Moly Racing Synth 4T 10W50 they sell, but so far it's been crickets (no reply).

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
FWIW I think Liqui Moly is doing the same thing. For instance their bike oil Racing Synth 4T 10W50 in the US can be bought as a 5 liter jug engish language label but as low as $37, however, the euro market gets a 4 liter jug for about $50 price tag. Pricng seems to suggest the US version might contain less, if any, PAO. I inquired with a vendor about this very situation with Liqui Moly Racing Synth 4T 10W50, but so far it's been crickets (no reply).


I've exchanged many emails with the tech department at liqui-moly and I've asked if they adjust their formulations for the North American market.
They responded saying their products are the same no matter which market they are sold in and they don't change anything because their formulations meet a specification.
So the stuff you buy in Europe is the same as the stuff they sell here. Size of packaging may differ based on the market it's sold in however the product in. The bottles is the same here as it is there.

 

[LoneRanger]

This, sir, is great news! That makes Liqui Moly Racing Synth 4T 10W50 a deal @ 5 liters for $37 (+ s/h) on a JASO MA2 group IV synthetic oil.

Originally Posted By: Clevy

I've exchanged many emails with the tech department at liqui-moly and I've asked if they adjust their formulations for the North American market.
They responded saying their products are the same no matter which market they are sold in and they don't change anything because their formulations meet a specification.
So the stuff you buy in Europe is the same as the stuff they sell here. Size of packaging may differ based on the market it's sold in however the product in. The bottles is the same here as it is there.

 

[Ausfahrt]

Other European spec oils are available here too.

http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-550022576-6PK-Ultra-European-Synthetic/dp/B006A49KJC

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
This, sir, is great news! That makes Liqui Moly Racing Synth 4T 10W50 a deal @ 5 liters for $37 (+ s/h) on a JASO MA2 group IV synthetic oil.

Originally Posted By: Clevy

I've exchanged many emails with the tech department at liqui-moly and I've asked if they adjust their formulations for the North American market.
They responded saying their products are the same no matter which market they are sold in and they don't change anything because their formulations meet a specification.
So the stuff you buy in Europe is the same as the stuff they sell here. Size of packaging may differ based on the market it's sold in however the product in. The bottles is the same here as it is there.


That's a good deal.
I originally emailed them about their 0w-40 and whether they adjusted the formula for the North American market.
I was informed that none of their formulas get adjusted since they meet a specification and are certified,not just a "meets or exceeds " type of disclaimer.
So I was in essence told that their products aren't adjusted or cheapened for the NA market.
And knowing that makes my head spin because I can buy a 5 litre jug of their 0w-40 that meets all the same specs and has all the same approvals as M1 0w-40 for 50 bucks at napa yet the M1 costs 13 a quart and jugs aren't available whatsoever.
So a domestic product costs more than a product shipped from overseas and it meets all the same specs and has all the same approvals.
Just baffles me.

 

[JAG]

Lubro Moly 0W-40 is certified only for API SM and ACEA A3-04/B4-04. Those specs are a bit old...10 years ago for the latter. The other specs. mentioned are only recommended for use in. And some of them are older, less stringent versions of the ones that M1 0W-40 is actually certified for.
http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/mediendb.nsf/gfx2/1360%20synthoil%20energy%20SAE%200w-40_EN.pdf/$file/1360%20synthoil%20energy%20SAE%200w-40_EN.pdf

 

[LoneRanger]

Leaving it at SM would allow them to include higher levels of Zinc and Phos than an SN compliant formulation, yes? Therefore the Liqiui Moly 0W40 product may contain more anti-wear additive for less money than the Mobil 1 (?...)