Valvoline Restore & Redline Oil - Cleaning Ability

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Was talking to The Critic about these two oils and their ability to clean. Is the primary cleaning component of Valvoline Premium Restore the "ester" additive?

It's been said Redline doesn't contain much POE, but I don't think that is the case. Notice that the abs/cm figure for Redline is 98 and Valvoline Restore is 110. That is significantly higher than any other product I've seen. Based on the VOA for Premium Blue, anything above 30 for abs/cm signifies ester content.

Premium Blue VOA


Redline VOA
 
I wouldn't comment on your initial question, but I'd ask:
Why would a person select a motor oil like this if an engine needed (or you just wanted) to be cleaned? For that, run Auto-RX. That's its job, and it does it extremely well.
 
Originally Posted by bulwnkl
I wouldn't comment on your initial question, but I'd ask:
Why would a person select a motor oil like this if an engine needed (or you just wanted) to be cleaned? For that, run Auto-RX. That's its job, and it does it extremely well.

Can't say about Red Line, but Valvoline Premium Blue Restore was specifically designed to clean the ring packs in Cummins ISX engines. Like, imagine if someone made a product that does what Auto-Rx is supposed to do, but it's a fully formulated lubricant instead of a third-party additive, and it's made specifically for your engine instead of generically formulated for a variety of engines.

Not sure whether that justifies using Premium Blue Restore in other engines, but that's where the idea comes from.
 
My UOA of M1 0w-40 back when I owned the bimmer showed oxidation at 39. So the question is really how much POE content is necessary to drive up the oxidation figure. My VOA from the same lab for Ravenol came back at 9.

BTW, this VOA of Redline 5w-30 shows 85: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4851640/1

This VOA from 2012 of Redline 5w-30 from A_Harman shows 108: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2635056/redline-5w30-voa-with-tbn

This VOA from 2002 of Redline 5w-30 shows 392: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...76375/redline-5w-30-voa-wearcheck-canada

I found an AMSOIL sig series VOA that showed virgin oxidation at 48
21.gif


This thread is mildly amusing as Redline returned both oxidation figures of 4 and 91
lol.gif

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-15w40-hdeo-2014-f250-6-7-psd-9400-miles

Liqui-Moly VOA has oxidation at 55:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru.../liqui-moly-molygen-new-generation-5w-40

RLI Bio-Syn 10w-30 VOA has oxidation at 84:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...824/rli-bio-synxtra-hd-10w30-low-ash-voa

A few things we can draw from the above:
- There appears to be quite a bit of variability with this test
- If the 2002 number is correct, there was a rather massive reduction in POE content (assuming that's the primary driver of the VOA oxidation figure) sometime after that
- We have no idea what percentage of POE in the base mix constitutes "significant". AMSOIL doesn't advertise Esters as being part of their base blend in the Signature Series for example and neither does Liqui-Moly.
 
Originally Posted by buster
I agree OVERKILL. Here was a discussion on this topic:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-and-oxidation-abs-cm-on-virgin-analysis


I think this point from Mola from that discussion pretty much sums it up:

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Look at the formula for each ester. The greater the number of Ox molecules the greater the oxidation numbers might/could be.

However, there are so many ester-based or esterified additive components I would not equate the oxidation numbers with the amount of ester base oils in a finished lubricant.

It seemed to me the OP's question was about maximum solvency verses the ester with the lowest number of oxygen molecules?
confused2.gif
 
Originally Posted by buster
Was talking to The Critic about these two oils and their ability to clean.


Why? Need to clean the internals of your old truck?
grin2.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by buster
I agree OVERKILL. Here was a discussion on this topic:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-and-oxidation-abs-cm-on-virgin-analysis


I think this point from Mola from that discussion pretty much sums it up:

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Look at the formula for each ester. The greater the number of Ox molecules the greater the oxidation numbers might/could be.

However, there are so many ester-based or esterified additive components I would not equate the oxidation numbers with the amount of ester base oils in a finished lubricant.

It seemed to me the OP's question was about maximum solvency verses the ester with the lowest number of oxygen molecules?
confused2.gif




I think so too.

I'm more curious if the ester component of Restore is what helps clean. I assume it is.
 
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by buster
I agree OVERKILL. Here was a discussion on this topic:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-and-oxidation-abs-cm-on-virgin-analysis


I think this point from Mola from that discussion pretty much sums it up:

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Look at the formula for each ester. The greater the number of Ox molecules the greater the oxidation numbers might/could be.

However, there are so many ester-based or esterified additive components I would not equate the oxidation numbers with the amount of ester base oils in a finished lubricant.

It seemed to me the OP's question was about maximum solvency verses the ester with the lowest number of oxygen molecules?
confused2.gif




I think so too.

I'm more curious if the ester component of Restore is what helps clean. I assume it is.


Could be. I believe Tom NJ spoke on the subject some time back and indicated that the type of ester is critical here, as they can have extremely different behaviours.
 
Image posted for posterity below, in case that web site removes it. I seem to recall the patent for Valvoline Premium Blue Restore stating that the base oil mix polarity is what they claimed allows the cleaning of piston deposits. I made a thread that discussed that patent.

6AB6D2CF-86C7-45AF-BFAD-82DD7450D1D2.jpeg
 
[Linked Image]

Well Redline cleaned the [censored] out of my 20 year old Z3. In about 16k miles, since I've owned it.
My mechanic is convinced and is using it now. This pic came from him when he was replacing the VCG. He said "engine looks new!"
Hah ...†
 
Very clean for sure....was there any existing sludge or varnish prior to the RL?
 
yep!
that typical rust-red color mud-crap left by that BMW Full Synthetic junk.... - extended OCIs.

it's the main reason I threw in the Redline, which wasn't needed for this car. But it is Sharked, with a Magnaflow exhaust so it's a fun car for sure.
(I do use RL fluids throughout, diff & gearbox, also in a Dinan e46, and E92M.)

and, my mechanic is a platinum level technician at the local BMW dealership.
He is their go-to guy who installs new engines, if you get my drift...
 
That is impressive 330indy. My mom owned a 1998 BMW that had a lot of that red deposit in it. Mobil 1 5W-30 (wrong oil, by the way) did not clean it up, nor did one application of Auto-RX. I didn't expect one application of Auto-RX to clean up that much of a mess. If it had a chance, it probably would have needed it for at least 4 or 5 applications.
 
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