Valvoline R&P 5w-30 3k mi; 2001 Mustang Bullitt 278.3k mi

[GriffinB]

This UOA is from my 2001 Mustang Bullitt with 278k miles, pretty much all of the 3k miles on this OCI was highway commuting and was not driven too hard. Oil filter was a Motorcraft FL820S, I haven't cut it open yet but I will, and I will post a link to it on this post as well. I have changed from an aftermarket CAI with a K&N filter back to the stock Bullitt intake assembly with a Bosch Workshop filter and now a MC filter. However the intake assembly was only on for 1k miles of this OCI, the Bosch was in for 810mi and the MC the rest. Magnet on the end of my drain plug caught quite a bit of very fine powder, I didn't really see any chunks.

Previous Report: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-1-4k-mi-2001-mustang-bullitt-276k-mi.395634/

Here is the material stuck to the drain plug.

And here is the material spread out on a piece of paper. It is super fine and sludgy and smeared almost like paint, I'm curious to see what the filter looks like.

So the Fe is down 6ppm from last time so I guess that's good. Al is up 11ppm, Cu is up 3ppm, Si is down 1ppm, Na is up 13ppm, and K is up 7ppm. So overall wear has increased quite a bit, especially on Al. I don't suspect to have any issues with my pistons, I did a compression and leakdown test at 276,560mi and the results were very good. So I'm hoping that still hold's true and all the metal is coming from the timing guides, tensioners, and chains. Cu I assume only comes from bearings.

I do have a coolant leak at the front passenger side of the intake manifold, and I'm hoping this is where my high levels of Na and K are coming from. I did have an oil leak at the oil filter adapter gasket and I replaced that at 276,709mi, this could have also been causing coolant intrusion in the oil.

So what are the genius's thought's on this UOA? I know @dnewton3 is very knowledgeable about these engines if you could chime in with your thoughts. Thanks guys!

 

[JeffKeryk]

Nice car!

 

[FZ1]

This UOA is from my 2001 Mustang Bullitt with 278k miles, pretty much all of the 3k miles on this OCI was highway commuting and was not driven too hard. Oil filter was a Motorcraft FL820S, I haven't cut it open yet but I will, and I will post a link to it on this post as well. I have changed from an aftermarket CAI with a K&N filter back to the stock Bullitt intake assembly with a Bosch Workshop filter and now a MC filter. However the intake assembly was only on for 1k miles of this OCI, the Bosch was in for 810mi and the MC the rest. Magnet on the end of my drain plug caught quite a bit of very fine powder, I didn't really see any chunks.

Previous Report: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-1-4k-mi-2001-mustang-bullitt-276k-mi.395634/
View attachment 296376
Here is the material stuck to the drain plug.
View attachment 296377
And here is the material spread out on a piece of paper. It is super fine and sludgy and smeared almost like paint, I'm curious to see what the filter looks like.
View attachment 296378

So the Fe is down 6ppm from last time so I guess that's good. Al is up 11ppm, Cu is up 3ppm, Si is down 1ppm, Na is up 13ppm, and K is up 7ppm. So overall wear has increased quite a bit, especially on Al. I don't suspect to have any issues with my pistons, I did a compression and leakdown test at 276,560mi and the results were very good. So I'm hoping that still hold's true and all the metal is coming from the timing guides, tensioners, and chains. Cu I assume only comes from bearings.

I do have a coolant leak at the front passenger side of the intake manifold, and I'm hoping this is where my high levels of Na and K are coming from. I did have an oil leak at the oil filter adapter gasket and I replaced that at 276,709mi, this could have also been causing coolant intrusion in the oil.

So what are the genius's thought's on this UOA? I know @dnewton3 is very knowledgeable about these engines if you could chime in with your thoughts. Thanks guys!

Nice ride! Maybe, the metals are mostly cleanup?

 

[GriffinB]

Nice ride! Maybe, the metals are mostly cleanup?

I mean maybe but I feel like this is a lot of metal to just be cleanup, especially when this engine wasn't just covered in sludge.

 

[KnappAttak]

Seems like a severe problem with dust and dirt inside the engine causing these levels of metals in the analysis. Certainly dirt getting thru a clean K&N filter for sure. The K&N will inhale dust like they do air. In the diesel world they would call it "dusting" and ruins an engine.

What would happen with multiple oil flushes/changes I wonder? Like 3-4 quick change in a row. Would it rid the internals of abrasives enough to see it trend down? If it doesn't, then engine will certainly need rebuilt and thoroughly cleaned up inside. It's eating itself up slowly but surely it seems as it is.

 

[fantastic]

Engine experiencing high wear. Like I mentioned previously, no safe oil but certainly some better choices for high wear like 15w-50 Mobil 1 or save a few bucks & just dump 20w-50 in. Run it till it doesn't?

 

[Japanese]

Aluminum and copper don't stick to a magnet, so that dark gray stuff on the oil plug magnet is something else. I just checked out your previous oil analysis - it looks like you have a cooling problem and it might be something different than what mentioned here, sinco you said you replaced that gasket:

The sodium level is what I was more worried about, most likely sources were coolant. I am hoping it was from my oil filter adapter gasket as it was leaking oil and I just replaced it yesterday and the gasket was pretty blown out on the coolant ports. Once again I will have to see on the next report.

The vehicle's coolant system works under pressure. If there is a leak or the system pressure drops then the coolant boiling temp. drops too which affects the overall engine cooling. Coolant leaks are easily detectable (especially when the engine is hot) because the coolant has specific smell and color too.

Like @fantastic mentioned - this oil is not for your car because is not high performance oil for such a powerful engine, regardless of if you do or don't do autocross and road course events, but is not for car especially if you did or planing to do.

Goals for the car is autocross and maybe a road course 1-2 times a year.

I just got Valvoline R&P 0W20 for the winter and now I'm rethinking should I use it at all. I understand you want to clean your engine with this oil, but your engine has bigger issues related to cooling and lubricating that are higher priority.

This engine definitely needs robust A3/B4 (Mobil 1 Euro 0W40 or Castrol/Pennzoil 5W30 Euro) oil or if any autocross/road course plamns some racing oil Valvoline VR, Red Line, Amsoil. But after you eliminate the coolant leaks.
I wouldn't drive the car until the issues are resolved.

 

[GriffinB]

Engine experiencing high wear. Like I mentioned previously, no safe oil but certainly some better choices for high wear like 15w-50 Mobil 1 or save a few bucks & just dump 20w-50 in. Run it till it doesn't?

Yeah I know I've read that post so many times and done lots of digging on what kind of heavier weight oil I should run. Like Japanese mentioned I was considering something like a Euro 5w40. I would like to get a real oil pressure reading to possibly give me an idea of the bearing clearances. My thought's on this are if oil pressure is garbage then that means the mains and rods are toast, if pressure is optimal I could assume the bearings are fine.

I just wanted to go with one more round of R&P to see what would happen and to clean the engine some more.

 

[OVERKILL]

Any valvetrain noise on start-up? Wondering if you've worn through the tensioner nylon and the aluminum is coming from there.

 

[GriffinB]

Aluminum and copper don't stick to a magnet, so that dark gray stuff on the oil plug magnet is something else. I just checked out your previous oil analysis - it looks like you have a cooling problem and it might be something different than what mentioned here, sinco you said you replaced that gasket:

In these engines Fe can come from timing chains or tensioners if the guides have failed and the tensioner is hitting the chain. If they have never been replaced at this mileage they should be disintegrating. Or it could come from the cylinder walls or maybe cams. A

The vehicle's coolant system works under pressure. If there is a leak or the system pressure drops then the coolant boiling temp. drops too which affects the overall engine cooling. Coolant leaks are easily detectable (especially when the engine is hot) because the coolant has specific smell and color too.

As we saw from the two UOA's; coolant contaminants rose quite a bit, so it's probably safe to say the oil filter adapter gasket was not the cause of coolant intrusion. But the leaking adapter gasket was still installed for 1,364mi of this OCI. The other most likely cause for coolant intrusion is from my intake manifold leaking, I for sure have an external leak on the passenger front coolant port. It is very small and just barely above a weep. But if the gasket is blown out between a coolant and intake port this would be a key sign of intrusion. I think I could confirm this by boroscoping the cylinders to check for ones that look steam cleaned.

Like @fantastic mentioned - this oil is not for your car because is not high performance oil for such a powerful engine, regardless of if you do or don't do autocross and road course events, but is not for car especially if you did or planing to do.

I have to slightly disagree with you here. This engine is in no way a "high performance" engine, and I would struggle to say a 4.6 2v is "powerful". This is just a plain old workhorse engine that has the same exact engine that a crown vic, f150, e150, etc. would have. Granted my argument is pretty pointless .

This engine definitely needs robust A3/B4 (Mobil 1 Euro 0W40 or Castrol/Pennzoil 5W30 Euro) oil or if any autocross/road course plamns some racing oil Valvoline VR, Red Line, Amsoil. But after you eliminate the coolant leaks.
I wouldn't drive the car until the issues are resolved.

I agree on putting a higher quality euro spec oil in. From the reading I've done on oils for high performance driving Castrol Edge is a good oil, and I Mobil 1 was mentioned a lot as well.
I know this is a bit of a basic question but what would the benefits be of using a 0w40 vs 5w40? I am rather scared of using a 0w oil in a engine like mine with lots of miles and spec'd for a 5w20/5w30. From my understanding the hot viscosity being higher like "40" can help against shearing and wear at higher temperatures and hard use(i.e. extended consistent high RPMs).

I am a little iffy on where to start with repairs. I think I want to check the timing chain guides and tensioners just to make sure they are confirmed healthy. Obviously the intake manifold gasket needs to be replaced, and hopefully that is the cause of coolant intrusion. And then once that is replaced I should do a cooling system pressure test to confirm there are no other leaks. That way I don't have to wait for a UOA to confirm K and Na levels.

 

[GriffinB]

Any valvetrain noise on start-up? Wondering if you've worn through the tensioner nylon and the aluminum is coming from there.

No noise on startup at all, and it starts up like an old carbureted chevy. Usually starts in 2-3 revolutions, considerably less then my vic. There is also no noise on startup from a fresh oil change with a dry filter, my vic does make noise on a fresh change for a few seconds.

I am hoping the tensioners and guides are where the Al is coming from. I will update back on this post with my findings. I need to figure out what vehicle to tear into first.

 

[Japanese]

I know this is a bit of a basic question but what would the benefits be of using a 0w40 vs 5w40?

You can use 5W40 or also 5W30. Make sure it says ACEA A3/B4 on the back. Mobil 1 0W40 Euro is oil approved for Porsche and Corvette, so you don't need to fear the zero.

I wonder, why the oil analysis don't show coolant % in the oil as the Blackstone labs for example.

 

[dnewton3]

The K and Na definitely indicate a coolant leak somewhere; you're going to have to do some sleuthing.

The Fe and Al indicate a timing chain/guide issue; that's the typical first place to look when these metals rise. Just because it's not making noise doesn't mean that the wear isn't present. It only means that the hydraulic tensioners are working properly.

 

[GriffinB]

The K and Na definitely indicate a coolant leak somewhere; you're going to have to do some sleuthing.

The Fe and Al indicate a timing chain/guide issue; that's the typical first place to look when these metals rise. Just because it's not making noise doesn't mean that the wear isn't present. It only means that the hydraulic tensioners are working properly.

Thank you once again for your insight Mr. Newton. Considering the severity of the UOA on my Bullitt I will tackle that first, I am thinking I will do intake manifold gasket, valve cover gaskets, timing system, and water pump. I have a SAG timing kit I got for my Vic but I would feel better about putting a Melling kit on. The SAG was a RockAuto wholesale closeout from Carquest made in USA in 2010. I should start teardown on Sunday and I should get it all torn apart, I will make sure to come back with pictures of my findings.

What are your thoughts on doing valve stem seals while I am in here? I already have the seals as I have two Fel-Pro gasket kits, also from a wholesale closeout.