Valvoline Playing the "Recommended Game"

[BMW Dom]

I was looking through Valvoline's euro oil product information sheet to see what ll-01 oils they have. But I noticed that they recommend each oil for many more applications which Valvoline does not have the license to. I'm unsure why they're recommending an oil for an unapproved application, when Valvoline already has a licensed product for the application.

Maybe Valvoline is just confident in their product? Maybe it's like their Maxlife ATF ?

Thoughts?

Expired - DocuSign CLM

sharena21.springcm.com

 

[UncleDave]

Probably because it meets the license spec, but there is little upside in paying for it, or perhaps they have already submitted it for approval and are waiting on paperwork.

 

[KCJeep]

They are very clear about what is approved and what is recommended so I don't believe I'd call it a game. Some blenders definitely make it confusing and appear to do it on purpose, not what I'm seeing here.

As for recommendations they look very reasonable, they recommend the 0w40 for LL-01 and no 0x anything can meet LL-01 yet most here would not hesitate to use a good 0w40 in an LL-01 application, for example Castrol 0w40 is frequently recommended here as suitable for LL-01 (it is).

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Another thing is that with a HTHS of 3.5 they straddle certs. For example the min HTHS for LL01 and max HTHS for LL01FE is 3.5.

 

[BMW Dom]

They are very clear about what is approved and what is recommended so I don't believe I'd call it a game. Some blenders definitely make it confusing and appear to do it on purpose, not what I'm seeing here.

As for recommendations they look very reasonable, they recommend the 0w40 for LL-01 and no 0x anything can meet LL-01 yet most here would not hesitate to use a good 0w40 in an LL-01 application, for example Castrol 0w40 is frequently recommended here as suitable for LL-01 (it is).

You're right, the recommendations are reasonable. What's interesting is that the 0w-40 according to the PI sheet, doesn't have any approvals.

 

[edyvw]

Probably because it meets the license spec, but there is little upside in paying for it, or perhaps they have already submitted it for approval and are waiting on paperwork.

Valvoline has this language for couple of years. Approval takes a month at most.
Price is not an issue. It is around $5000 for approval (European manufacturers don’t play license game) and if that is a problem for company like Valvoline, then they have much bigger issues.

 

[edyvw]

Another thing is that with a HTHS of 3.5 they straddle certs. For example the min HTHS for LL01 and max HTHS for LL01FE is 3.5.

Motul 0W30 LL01 FE has HTHS 3.4. I mean, FE approval at that point is pointless.

 

[BMW Dom]

Motul 0W30 LL01 FE has HTHS 3.4. I mean, FE approval at that point is pointless.

Yes, I don't like this ll-01 FE anyways - and it's pretty hard to find. I would rather just stick with ll-01. Next trip to Wollyworld, I will look for the Valvoline 5w-40 and if I can't find it, I will just use the Castrol Edge 5w-40 (I know, I know, the 5w-40 isn't as good as the 0w-40). Edit: or the Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30

 

[KCJeep]

I've had great results with the Castrol 5w40 despite the hate for it here, and it actually carries more approvals than the 0w40. Most of the hate is directed at what it used to be not what it really is now. If you don't need the PAO for extreme cold starts or a high heat/boost turbo the Castrol 5w40 is a fine oil.

The Valvoline is only available from Wally's in jugs on line (at least here) but they have quarts in store. If they still have it the Quaker State Euro 5w40 meets all the same approvals the Castrol 5w40 and Valvoline 5w40 do, which is to say a LOT. The QS will be cheaper if they have it.

 

[edyvw]

I've had great results with the Castrol 5w40 despite the hate for it here, and it actually carries more approvals than the 0w40. Most of the hate is directed at what it used to be not what it really is now. If you don't need the PAO for extreme cold starts or a high heat/boost turbo the Castrol 5w40 is a fine oil.

The Valvoline is only available from Wally's in jugs on line (at least here) but they have quarts in store. If they still have it the Quaker State Euro 5w40 meets all the same approvals the Castrol 5w40 and Valvoline 5w40 do, which is to say a LOT. The QS will be cheaper if they have it.

What is it now? Basically, 5W30 oil with HTHS probably lower than BMW TPT 5W30 made by Castrol (completely different oil based on VOA).
It is still mediocre oil that cost the same amount of money as Castrol 0W40.

 

[BMW Dom]

What is it now? Basically, 5W30 oil with HTHS probably lower than BMW TPT 5W30 made by Castrol (completely different oil based on VOA).
It is still mediocre oil that cost the same amount of money as Castrol 0W40.

Right, but it doesn’t have the ll-01. What is the Castrol 5w-40 hths?

 

[KCJeep]

I believe it is 3.7 IIRC.

 

[KCJeep]

What is it now? Basically, 5W30 oil with HTHS probably lower than BMW TPT 5W30 made by Castrol (completely different oil based on VOA).
It is still mediocre oil that cost the same amount of money as Castrol 0W40.

Oh edy....

No oil with all those specs is "mediocre".

 

[UncleDave]

Approval takes a month at most.

I hear that all the time and rarely find it to be the case.

Seems to me that there are different licensing bodies as well as approvals within a specific licensing body.

 

[edyvw]

Oh edy....

No oil with all those specs is "mediocre".

Mediocre among those oil. You know exactly what I am saying.

 

[UncleDave]

5K? I know a license cost is that for API - but the testing to get your product there and or carry specific licenses seems way more than that.

 

[BMW Dom]

I believe it is 3.7 IIRC.

Which is the same as Valvoline 5w-40, too

 

[edyvw]

I hear that all the time and rarely find it to be the case.

Seems to me that there are different licensing bodies as well as approvals within a specific licensing body.

What licensing bodies? Once amount of oil that manufacturer requires is sent, it doesn’t take long.

5K? I know a license cost is that for API - but the testing to get your product there and or carry specific licenses seems way more than that.

View attachment 65915View attachment 65916

VW charges 3,200 euros. Are you talking approval cost or development cost? European manufacturers are not involved into this licensing BS. Oil is either approved or not. They don’t need another source of income like GM does.

 

[edyvw]

I believe it is 3.7 IIRC.

Yes, old version that had KV100 13.9cst. New is not nowhere near nor they publish.

 

[UncleDave]

What licensing bodies? Once amount of oil that manufacturer requires is sent, it doesn’t take long.

VW charges 3,200 euros. Are you talking approval cost or development cost? European manufacturers are not involved into this licensing BS. Oil is either approved or not. They don’t need another source of income like GM does.

Seems like every manufacturer (VW, BMW, MB, GM, Porsche) wants money for their stamp, and you've got ilsac, API

Seem like the process is - develop, test and then license and with the licensing you submit your individual tests, then they retest.