Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc meets Z-1 and DW-1

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Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
....Maxlife is full synthetic: http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf

Why use Z-1 instead of DW-1? Because the newest 2nd gen Odyssey was over six years old when DW-1 came to market. DW-1 hadn't been developed when my van's transmissions failed the first two times (using Z-1, "the real stuff" according to Honda). DW-1 was brand new when the unit failed the third time, and I don't know whether that rebuild got old stock Z-1 or the new DW-1. I did a Maxlife 3x drain & fill at 30k on the rebuild, do a single D & F every six months, and haven't looked back.

ETCG knows Honda repairs. If I were to DIY the Ody's timing belt at 315k, I'd buy his video. Does he know fluids? Not really. Listen to him talk about oil, or look at the old discussions of it here.

If you're convinced DW-1 will swath your gearbox in soothing goodness and never fail, then use it. Better use only Honda-branded oil in the crankcase, too.

Interesting post, and I find myself agreeing with many points. Yes Eric is the car guy, but as his recent youtube back stroke on synthetic oil shows, he's not Eric the oil guy.

Though I have had much better 'luck' using Z-1 on an 01 Civic EX (closing on 200k) and 07 V6 Accord, my reasoning for now using MaxLife is fairly similar. With Z-1 gone and it's rep far from stellar yet the AT's I've maintained survived it, no reason imo to go straight to Hondas new high dollar magic sauce without giving reasonably priced ML a fair shot. Over 25k now using it on the Civic and just starting on V6 Accord, but I've only done single d&f's at ~25k intervals. Thankfully, nothing unusual to report.

Interesting that DW-1 first advertised synthetic but now gives no indication. Based on it's lower starting viscosity than Z-1 (which sheared badly) I suspect that it is synthetic. Not sure why Honda removed the synthetic label, but as can be seen here it has opened it up to debate.
 
I believe DW-1 is a superior fluid to Z-1. However, the constant chatter of, “ZOMG!!! You MUST use the Honda fluid!!!” is getting old.

What will happen if I don’t use it? My tranny has already grenaded three times on the originally specified genuine Honda fluid.

If it grenades again on Maxlife, I’m not out anything. It’s already gone farther on Maxlife than it did the last time on Honda fluid. When it goes, I’ll pay the $2500 or so to rebuild it again because nothing else is wrong with the van.
 
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I believe DW-1 is a superior fluid to Z-1. However, the constant chatter of, “ZOMG!!! You MUST use the Honda fluid!!!” is getting old.

What will happen if I don’t use it? My tranny has already grenaded three times on the originally specified genuine Honda fluid.

If it grenades again on Maxlife, I’m not out anything. It’s already gone farther on Maxlife than it did the last time on Honda fluid. When it goes, I’ll pay the $2500 or so to rebuild it again because nothing else is wrong with the van.



2500$ WOW

my Dad just had his done for 800$ in Miami.

Why so much for you?

its on 2000 Honda Oddessy

why did it cost you so much $ ?
 
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I know it's an awful unit on what has otherwise been a great van. That said, Z-1 simply doesn't withstand the increased heat and stress from the 2nd Gen Odyssey, compared to smaller cars. A number of the members at Odyclub.com are getting far more miles out of those units on Maxlife, Redline D4, and Amsoil than they ever did on Z-1.


Why are they using Z1 when DW1 is FULL Synthetic.... Im not sure if MaxLife is FULL Synthetic or a blend or what.

Just use the real stuff.. Even Eric the Car guy who worked at a Honda dealer for nearly 10 years swears that is the only ATF to use with a Honda.... Check him out on You tube.


Honda ATF DW1 is FULLY Synthetic, There was even a picture shown when the first bottles came out at the dealer that clearly shown.

Here look.

2aha253.jpg



sorry these are Canadian market DW-1. the 1L instead 1q, and French give it away. but US version may be synthetic. just saying this picture can not be use to prove US DW1 is synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I did a Maxlife 3x drain & fill at 30k on the rebuild, do a single D & F every six months, and haven't looked back.


Sorry. Misspoke there. My daughter's Civic got the 3x at 30k after a rebuild (previous owner never touched the fluid) and a single D & F every six months. Ody gets annual cooler line exchanges.
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I know it's an awful unit on what has otherwise been a great van. That said, Z-1 simply doesn't withstand the increased heat and stress from the 2nd Gen Odyssey, compared to smaller cars. A number of the members at Odyclub.com are getting far more miles out of those units on Maxlife, Redline D4, and Amsoil than they ever did on Z-1.


Why are they using Z1 when DW1 is FULL Synthetic.... Im not sure if MaxLife is FULL Synthetic or a blend or what.

Just use the real stuff.. Even Eric the Car guy who worked at a Honda dealer for nearly 10 years swears that is the only ATF to use with a Honda.... Check him out on You tube.


Honda ATF DW1 is FULLY Synthetic, There was even a picture shown when the first bottles came out at the dealer that clearly shown.

Here look.

2aha253.jpg



sorry these are Canadian market DW-1. the 1L instead 1q, and French give it away. but US version may be synthetic. just saying this picture can not be use to prove US DW1 is synthetic.



Found out DW1 is NOT SYNTHETIC.. Only in CANADA is syntheic

read

Local dealer called tech line..they said PCM in Canada are different and require synthetic ATF. USA dw-1 is not synthetic and they do not recommend running any full or semi synthetic in USA vehicles.


Found this quote also

US definition of "synthetic" if pretty WEAK. A base 3 synthetic oil is just dino oil "modified"..like Mobil one EP used to be (it still may be). The "real" synthetics are Base 4 stock like castrol edge, Amsoil SS...probably many others. So you could be buying a motor oil called "synthetic" that is actually dino based! If you buy a 0w (which I recommend to everyone) I *think* it has to be base 4 as 0w is hard/impossible to attain with dino.


So I do not get it... So if you buy Canada DW1 is syn but if you buy DW1 in the USA its Not even Syn blend??


also

Not sure if this has been discussed here or not but I am curious about the new Honda DW-1 ATF. Based on MSDS, it may not be synthetic (at least for the US market). In fact, the flash point of DW-1 and Z1 is identical. The flash point is always higher for a synthetic oil. The only difference is that the DW-1 has lower viscosity at lower temperature compared to Z1. Both the Mobile 1 & Redline D4 ATF has flash point that is 66 degrees higher than the DW-1 & Z1 ATF.


ATF FLASH POINT
DW-1: 170C
Z1: 170C

Mobile 1: 236C
Redline D4: 236C
AMSoil: 234C
Royal Purple: 216C
 
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weird that honda would spec a different fluid for us canucks. i mean the numbers of hondas sold up here will pale in comparison to the US. also, the hondas sold here are made in the same plants as those sold in the US. would honda really have different PCM for canada? just hard for me to wrap my head around DW-1 being different in the US and Canada.
 
Originally Posted By: Quakish
weird that honda would spec a different fluid for us canucks. i mean the numbers of hondas sold up here will pale in comparison to the US. also, the hondas sold here are made in the same plants as those sold in the US. would honda really have different PCM for canada? just hard for me to wrap my head around DW-1 being different in the US and Canada.



I dunno, I didn't believe it also... However I even called the local Honda dealer today and asked the sales dept agent if DW1 was synthetic and at first he said he didn't think so, then I was put on hold and he told me it didn't say it anyplace on the bottle that it was in fact synthetic. Then he said with syn fluids being so popular and if it was in fact a syn ATF he didn't see why HONDA would not in fact add that fact to the bottle. So all in all he doesn't think DW1 is synthetic.. I then asked him to ask a tech, I was put on Hold again and he came back and told me that DW1 in the USA is NOT Synthetic and went on to say if it was synthetic it WOULD say so.

He also went on to say look at the Engine Oil.. If the Engine Oil is synthetic it says it.
So he went on to says the HONDA DW1 is NOT a SYN...

That sucks IMO.

HOWEVER he went on to say that DW1 / HONDA ATF is made for HONDA AT, and Not to use any other brand then Honda for your AT if you own a HONDA vehicle.

I then said why? I said I can use any Engine Oil I want long as its the correct weight.

I do not have to use HONDA OIL....

Then he said that HONDA ATF is special for HONDA TRANNYS.....
 
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Seems like this topic is dead but a couple thoughts:

DW-1 was not made for your older honda trans although it seems to work better than ZF-1 IMO.

I'm thinking about switching to maxlife because it meets so many specs and it's good stuff, you can tell as soon as you put it in a car, it's full syn and just over $4 per quart. I've been impressed in everything I've used it in. It's also Dexron VI.

Interestingly, someone pointed out years ago that Maxlife would change their label to reflect DW-1. I bought some today, it still doesn't mention DW-1 on the label.

So far, I've used DW-1. I would have used maxlife for sure if I hadn't seen the change to DW-1, ZF-1 didn't make my 95 accord very happy. Much better shifting with DW-1
 
With all this said, Honda apparently feels that the thinner DW-1 meets the specs of older Hondas that required Z-1. So, thinner must not be so detrimental.

For me, I like the firmer shifts that Maxlife generates. Those soft shifts cannot be good.
 
Originally Posted By: Quakish
weird that honda would spec a different fluid for us canucks. i mean the numbers of hondas sold up here will pale in comparison to the US. also, the hondas sold here are made in the same plants as those sold in the US. would honda really have different PCM for canada? just hard for me to wrap my head around DW-1 being different in the US and Canada.


Maybe because synthetic flows better in cold weather?
 
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