Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc meets Z-1 and DW-1

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Yep, ~$18/gal. Add P20 code and take 20% off that. Bigger order, other codes take off more.



Is that at Advance Auto website?

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Still looking for the compatibility with DW1.


It's not on the bottle. If you're so interested in it, call Valvoline.


The critical question again is.....

when will Valvoline have their official site state that MaxLife ATF "meets" Honda DW1 spec?

 

[Hokiefyd]

The critical suggestion again is...

If you're so interested in it, call Valvoline.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: gogozy
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Yep, ~$18/gal. Add P20 code and take 20% off that. Bigger order, other codes take off more.


I got to try it, i thought the code does not work on Maxlife ATF previously.

Holy thread revival Batman!

When I posted that reply one could use an AAP code with MaxLife. Apparently it was a very popular item because it then went on AAP's new hot item list, and codes could no longer be used for ML. In the last few months the gallon jug has gone from ~$18 to ~$23 a jug. Still considerably less expensive than DW-1 or Z-1 before it. Running it in three vehicles, two with Z-1 oem spec.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
The critical suggestion again is...

If you're so interested in it, call Valvoline.


But wait...You started this very thread that makes it appear like MaxLife actually has officially stated that it meets DW1. When in fact they DO NOT make the claim on ANY official website or on the actual product IN WRITING.
Why did you do this?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
But wait...You started this very thread that makes it appear like MaxLife actually has officially stated that it meets DW1. When in fact they DO NOT make the claim on ANY official website or on the actual product IN WRITING.
Why did you do this?


Why? To pass along what they told me. They clearly state on the PDS:

Quote:
The above constitutes only a partial list of applications approved by Valvoline. Please contact us at 1-800-Team-VAL for additional applications.


So, I contacted 1-800-Team-VAL to find out (well, I emailed them anyway). If you are interested in when or if they will add DW-1 to the list on the website or PDS, I suggest you do the same.

 

[antiqueshell]

Perhaps I should do that. But then again YOU made the call to their customer service center, why didn't you ask this important question. You seem pretty intelligent to me.

But the way you have titled the thread it makes it sound "official".

LEGALLY, until it is clearly stated IN WRITING on the Valvoline website, and or the product itself, the CUSTOMER HAS NO RECOURSE IF THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE VEHICLE AS A RESULT OF THE IMPROPER FLUID.

So the call center may "claim" that ML "meets" Honda DW1, but in actuality it doesn't. Legally speaking and/ or technically speaking as well.

 

[Hokiefyd]

My level of intelligence is irrelevant here; I was simply not interested in knowing if or when they'd put it on the bottle. I don't own any transmissions that require DW-1, so it's a moot point to me. I was simply curious if they'd say that their product meets the requirements of DW-1, and I passed along what they said.

By the way, I'm not sure what list of "requirements" Valvoline (and Castrol, Amsoil, Redline, etc) is using to which they say their fluid conforms. To my knowledge, Honda does not publish a "specification" for these fluids. They're not licensed either. I especially look at MaxLife, which is lighter than DW-1 at operating temp, and is significantly lighter than Z1 at operating temp (6.1 cSt for ML vs. about 7.5 cSt for Z1). How is that "meeting the spec"?

I don't even use MaxLife anymore anyway (using the Castrol product in both vehicles now). The Castrol product meets the JASO-1A specification (which is published, and apparently supported by Japanese OEMs) and its operational viscosity is much closer to that of Z1. I haven't actually poured the Castrol into the Acura yet, but will do so next weekend probably. Will report on shifting operation.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
My level of intelligence is irrelevant here; I was simply not interested in knowing if or when they'd put it on the bottle. I don't own any transmissions that require DW-1, so it's a moot point to me. I was simply curious if they'd say that their product meets the requirements of DW-1, and I passed along what they said.

By the way, I'm not sure what list of "requirements" Valvoline (and Castrol, Amsoil, Redline, etc) is using to which they say their fluid conforms. To my knowledge, Honda does not publish a "specification" for these fluids. They're not licensed either. I especially look at MaxLife, which is lighter than DW-1 at operating temp, and is significantly lighter than Z1 at operating temp (6.1 cSt for ML vs. about 7.5 cSt for Z1). How is that "meeting the spec"?

I don't even use MaxLife anymore anyway (using the Castrol product in both vehicles now).

The Castrol product meets the JASO-1A specification (which is published, and apparently supported by Japanese OEMs) and its operational viscosity is much closer to that of Z1. I haven't actually poured the Castrol into the Acura yet, but will do so next weekend probably. Will report on shifting operation.


Good catch, I knew about that JASO-1A standard but you don't see it mentioned much in the USA.

It IS a fact that Castrol Transmax IMV DOES meet BOTH Honda Z1 and DW1 specs. AND THEY ACTUALLY ARE WILLING TO PUT THAT IN WRITING ON THEIR OFFICIAL WEBSITE. That at least gives me confidence in that product.

I've always used Honda OEM Z1 in my old 94 Accord 2.2L auto and don't plan on changing that any time soon, if it works don't change the type of fluid used.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
It IS a fact that Castrol Transmax IMV DOES meet BOTH Honda Z1 and DW1 specs.


Well, it's a fact that they SAY it does (and yes, I'm contradicting the title of this thread some with this post).

What specifications are there to meet? For example, what is the allowable viscosity range of Z1 (and DW-1)? Transmax IMV is thicker than both at operating temperature, so I'm not sure how it meets both of them. Valvoline says that MaxLife meets the Z1 spec, but ML is 6.1 cSt at 100 deg C and Z1 is about 7.5 cSt. Again, I'm not sure how that's meeting the "spec", whatever the "spec" is.

The wording that both use, as I recall, is that Honda (Z1 and/or DW-1) is a recommended application for the fluid. To me, this is not the same as meeting the specification for the fluid. Again, to my knowledge, there is no "specification" to meet...not that Honda has made available anyway.

I do agree that use whatever works. If I could still get Z1, I may have continued to use that. Problem is, I can't get Z1 anymore. DW-1 makes our Acura shift like pudding. It's passable in the CR-V, but still "looser" than other fluids. ML in the CR-V is too firm. Castrol is just right.

 

[antiqueshell]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

DW-1 makes our Acura shift like pudding. It's passable in the CR-V, but still "looser" than other fluids. ML in the CR-V is too firm. Castrol is just right.


It's not as important how a car's shift feels, as much as how the trans shifts according to the design that was intended.

While you might not like how those shifts "feel" with DW1 it may make the trans last a great deal longer than it otherwise would with another fluid that might make the shifts feel better to you, but cause accelerated wear.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
It's not as important how a car's shift feels, as much as how the trans shifts according to the design that was intended.

While you might not like how those shifts "feel" with DW1 it may make the trans last a great deal longer than it otherwise would with another fluid that might make the shifts feel better to you, but cause accelerated wear.


This may be true. But man, with DW-1, a hot 1-2 shift took over one full second. It was very sloppy. With MaxLife, it executes a hot 1-2 shift the same as it executes a cold 1-2 shift. That is to say, relatively quick with a positive engaged feel.

Honestly, if you drove our Acura when it had more DW-1 in it, you'd ask me what was wrong with it, and suggest that it was about to suffer the fate that many Honda V-6 automatics have suffered. And that's what it "felt" to me...it "felt" like it was about to slip...pun intended...away into oblivion. Was that simply because I had exchanged a lot of the 70,000 mile old Z1 out in somewhat rapid fashion, and now the transmission has stabilized? Perhaps.

 

[bourne]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell


It's not as important how a car's shift feels, as much as how the trans shifts according to the design that was intended.

While you might not like how those shifts "feel" with DW1 it may make the trans last a great deal longer than it otherwise would with another fluid that might make the shifts feel better to you, but cause accelerated wear.


Actually with an Auto Trans, a firmer quicker shift produces less wear on the parts than a longer, softer drawn out smoother shift. Something about the clutch slipping less with firmer shifts.

Z1 performed acceptably in my Acura when fully hot. Cold weather performance was horrendous. ML does both better, at least for me. I am interested in the Castrol product. Maybe my next few drain and fills will be with that. See how it works.

 

[David1]

I dunno, I have been in and out of garages all my life, I know when it comes to a Transmission its best to use the real deal. I know with GM you can use Valvoline or any FLUID that is approved...

however HONDA Trannys are very strange and they seem to work better and last longer on the real stuff.

When you buy a Honda new they do NOT use Valvoline in the Tranny... They use Real Honda DW1 and I have seen people go 100K miles and never do a drain and fill not even 3 QTs...

Now think... Would you buy a new Honda and take all the trans fluid out and put VALVOLINE in and expect it to lsst 60K or 100K miles????

I didnt think so.

also I like Valvoline products.. but when it comes to a HONDA Transmission its best to use the Real HONDA Genuine Fluid.

However all them specs that the MaxLife ATF will work for.. all them specs for so many transmissions... Id rather use one that is made only for my transmission... Never try and save a few $ when it comes to your transmission.... It could cost you big $ down the road.

Now if you want to add a friction modifier to it, ATP AT-203 Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid Friction Modifier makes a good one that actually has the HONDA GENUINE LOGO on it.

I know some people say Honda wont approve anything, however I dunno how ATP did it...
Clearly says on the bottle.

 

[yesthatsteve]

Originally Posted By: David1

Now think... Would you buy a new Honda and take all the trans fluid out and put VALVOLINE in and expect it to lsst 60K or 100K miles????

I didnt think so.

also I like Valvoline products.. but when it comes to a HONDA Transmission its best to use the Real HONDA Genuine Fluid.



After having transmissions last 70k, 84k, and 39k miles on Z-1

, I don't trust Honda's promises about fluids, and refuse to give them the opportunity with DW-1. The latest rebuild in my Ody is at 45k and counting with annual cooler-line exchanges of Maxlife with Lubegard Red added.

If it goes past 84k without failing, then I stick with Maxlife for as long as I own it. If it doesn't, then I do Amsoil in the next one. $2500 for a rebuilt tranny is still way cheaper than another vehicle.

 

[antiqueshell]

Unfortunately Steve it was not the Z-1 that caused transmission issues with your Ody, but the design of that specific unit.

Z-1 worked very well and performed for up to 30k+ miles in many other Honda products with ZERO issues.

 

[yesthatsteve]

I know it's an awful unit on what has otherwise been a great van. That said, Z-1 simply doesn't withstand the increased heat and stress from the 2nd Gen Odyssey, compared to smaller cars. A number of the members at Odyclub.com are getting far more miles out of those units on Maxlife, Redline D4, and Amsoil than they ever did on Z-1.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I know it's an awful unit on what has otherwise been a great van. That said, Z-1 simply doesn't withstand the increased heat and stress from the 2nd Gen Odyssey, compared to smaller cars. A number of the members at Odyclub.com are getting far more miles out of those units on Maxlife, Redline D4, and Amsoil than they ever did on Z-1.


Why are they using Z1 when DW1 is FULL Synthetic.... Im not sure if MaxLife is FULL Synthetic or a blend or what.

Just use the real stuff.. Even Eric the Car guy who worked at a Honda dealer for nearly 10 years swears that is the only ATF to use with a Honda.... Check him out on You tube.

 

[David1]

Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I know it's an awful unit on what has otherwise been a great van. That said, Z-1 simply doesn't withstand the increased heat and stress from the 2nd Gen Odyssey, compared to smaller cars. A number of the members at Odyclub.com are getting far more miles out of those units on Maxlife, Redline D4, and Amsoil than they ever did on Z-1.


Why are they using Z1 when DW1 is FULL Synthetic.... Im not sure if MaxLife is FULL Synthetic or a blend or what.

Just use the real stuff.. Even Eric the Car guy who worked at a Honda dealer for nearly 10 years swears that is the only ATF to use with a Honda.... Check him out on You tube.


Honda ATF DW1 is FULLY Synthetic, There was even a picture shown when the first bottles came out at the dealer that clearly shown.

Here look.

 

[yesthatsteve]

Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: David1
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
I know it's an awful unit on what has otherwise been a great van. That said, Z-1 simply doesn't withstand the increased heat and stress from the 2nd Gen Odyssey, compared to smaller cars. A number of the members at Odyclub.com are getting far more miles out of those units on Maxlife, Redline D4, and Amsoil than they ever did on Z-1.


Why are they using Z1 when DW1 is FULL Synthetic.... Im not sure if MaxLife is FULL Synthetic or a blend or what.

Just use the real stuff.. Even Eric the Car guy who worked at a Honda dealer for nearly 10 years swears that is the only ATF to use with a Honda.... Check him out on You tube.


Honda ATF DW1 is FULLY Synthetic, There was even a picture shown when the first bottles came out at the dealer that clearly shown.

Here look.

Maxlife is full synthetic: http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf

Why use Z-1 instead of DW-1? Because the newest 2nd gen Odyssey was over six years old when DW-1 came to market. DW-1 hadn't been developed when my van's transmissions failed the first two times (using Z-1, "the real stuff" according to Honda). DW-1 was brand new when the unit failed the third time, and I don't know whether that rebuild got old stock Z-1 or the new DW-1. I did a Maxlife 3x drain & fill at 30k on the rebuild, do a single D & F every six months, and haven't looked back.

ETCG knows Honda repairs. If I were to DIY the Ody's timing belt at 315k, I'd buy his video. Does he know fluids? Not really. Listen to him talk about oil, or look at the old discussions of it here.

If you're convinced DW-1 will swath your gearbox in soothing goodness and never fail, then use it. Better use only Honda-branded oil in the crankcase, too.