Valvoline Maxlife ATF, the best for all applications?

[SumGuy]

It's too bad that there isin't the same degree of general knowledge of AT oils as there is for engine oil. What-ever performance and chemistry knowledge there is about AT oils seems to be firmly locked up inside the industry. It's not necessarily their fault because they need to know this stuff.

The chemistry and the ability to analyze motor oil and the understanding of specific components of motor oil and their interaction with specific engine parts and surfaces is widespread and has been for years. But for transmission oils, their chemistry, additives, the exact needs of this or that specific transmission, as discussed by armchair mechanics on web forums, is still mostly arm-waving as far as I'm concerned.

I have asked on Valvoline's website (chat with an agent) if Maxlife can substitute for ATF+4, and was told no. Beyond that, I would not know where to look to find out why ATF+4 is a different animal compared to dex-this or merc-that.

I'm an old MoPar guy, the only thing I'm interested in when it comes to AT fluid is what is best for a non-lockup 727 Torqueflite. As in what is the best AVAILABLE OIL TODAY to put in one, not what was spec'd 50 years ago. So I'll stick with ATF+4 because it is probably the most heat and shear-resistant oil that is available.

It would be nice if LSJ would take an interest in and do video's about ATF like he does with motor oil. Talk to experts, visit labs, etc.

 

[Hall]

It's too bad that there isin't the same degree of general knowledge of AT oils as there is for engine oil. What-ever performance and chemistry knowledge there is about AT oils seems to be firmly locked up inside the industry. It's not necessarily their fault because they need to know this stuff.

With engine oils, it seems that as long as the spec is new enough and the viscosity is close, engines don't "need" anything else. The differences between brands of oil and types of oils within brands is largely marketing-driven. Automatic transmissions, on the other hand, are outrageously complex. They often do really need specific fluids, though many times there's enough crossover that "multi-vehicle" fluids do work fine. There's always those outliers (ATF+4 ??) that really do need a certain fluid. People say the same about Honda ATF but people use Maxlife ATF in them and go 200k miles just fine. Shifts feel different from DW-1, but the transmissions don't fail.

 

[VersysVsWhat]

Re: Toyota transmissions needing OEM WS, that may be true for a lot, but I don't think it applies to the Toyota's that have a E-"CVT" transmission like my spouse's Prius C. A couple of times so far, I have used non OEM fluid and it was fine (though the second time is very recent but so far, no issues).
These transmissions are built like a tank and are very easy, unusually so, on fluid. There are reports of people going 200 to 300k on the original fluid (not recommended, but that it can and does happen is borderline baffling until you look more deeply into how these transmissions work-very different than every other transmission system).

Btw, I believe Idemitsu, and maybe also Aisin, WS fluids are the same exact thing as Toyota WS. (I know Aisin is part of the larger corporate entity that Toyota is part of and makes a lot of their parts)

 

[4WD]

Mopar ATF+4 has special FM
Our number 1 GM transmission guy puts ML in (I have as well)
It’s the end of the world if you don’t buy Zeus juice for ZF’s
(Please don’t let Mopar rob you) - yet many have used ML …
As for the older Dex - I’d buy a stash of M1 before it’s gone …

 

[GSCJR]

I have asked on Valvoline's website (chat with an agent) if Maxlife can substitute for ATF+4, and was told no.

Until Valvoline produced the dedicated blue bottle ATF+4, MaxLife was suitable for use; I've used the red bottle successfully.

 

[nthach]

Short answer - no
Long answer - it really depends. I have it in a A761E Toyota 6-speed and it seems to work fine, a bit more positive shifts. Also used it in a GX460 for a friend, also worked fine. It seems to work OK in a Honda too. No issues in a Subaru. I use it all the time in place of D3 fluids. If the shifts feel acceptable with no shudder, that’s a win but some things should stick to OEM fluids - Mopar, ZF, Honda. Ford -licensed Mercon V/LV fluids are readily available everywhere - I know MaxLife works for those applications but the cost difference isn’t much.

 

[Hall]

Btw, I believe Idemitsu, and maybe also Aisin, WS fluids are the same exact thing as Toyota WS.

Look here for virgin oil analyses of those fluids. There are many who "believe" Idemitsu and Aisin DW ATF are the same, along with lots of "but Idemitsu makes the fluid for Honda", but they are 100% without question not the same fluids at all, in fact, not really even close to DW-1.

 

[Furious]

And don't tell people here what choice you made



Not interested enough to check, but I'll guess that the blue bottle is properly licensed by GM and Ford as LV / VI ATF while Maxlife isn't licensed, even though Valvoline says it's compatible or suitable.

Yes the blue bottle Dexron VI/Mercon LV is officially licensed Dexron VI, it is actually slightly thicker than Maxlife as well.

 

[Furious]

It would be nice if LSJ would take an interest in and do video's about ATF like he does with motor oil. Talk to experts, visit labs, etc.

He deals with motor oil because that is what he has actually worked with, he has formulated motor oils in the past, it could be that ATF is just something he doesn't have interest in, maybe he doesn't know enough about ATF to be willing to talk about it.

Now if he made ATF videos some people on here would just be the usual internet bullies who talk trash behind a screen but wont dare to do it in real life and trash his videos, say he doesn't know what he is talking about, etc.

Would be interesting though, I am sure Valvoline would be willing to have him back since they allowed him in for VRP.

 

[Plawan]

I have seen many people smoke decades and not get cancer either.

Be smart, stick to the correct fluid.

I used max life for about 130k in a Toyota ws application and never knew a difference from the original ws fluid. Got it in another Toyota now and it’s fine.
Used it in Mazda and ford fnr5 application for over 100k each and all good. Got it in a ZF 8&9 application now as well. Too early to tell on that one but can’t say I’ve noticed anything yet. I won’t be driving that one much for a couple weeks or so since I did it so I dunno yet.

 

[4WD]

I used max life for about 130k in a Toyota ws application and never knew a difference from the original ws fluid. Got it in another Toyota now and it’s fine.
Used it in Mazda and ford fnr5 application for over 100k each and all good. Got it in a ZF 8&9 application now as well. Too early to tell on that one but can’t say I’ve noticed anything yet. I won’t be driving that one much for a couple weeks or so since I did it so I dunno yet.

This is what’s in my 6L80e and eventually will try it in the Jeep 850 RE

 

[VersysVsWhat]

Look here for virgin oil analyses of those fluids. There are many who "believe" Idemitsu and Aisin DW ATF are the same, along with lots of "but Idemitsu makes the fluid for Honda", but they are 100% without question not the same fluids at all, in fact, not really even close to DW-1.

Hi Hall, thank you for the head's up on this. I'll look into it more deeply. I prefaced that statement with "I believe" precisely to convey some uncertainty. It's just something I had read/heard, but wasn't sure about it.

 

[Plawan]

This is what’s in my 6L80e and eventually will try it in the Jeep 850 RE

View attachment 282529

I wanted to use the extended protection version in my Ram ZF transmission but they didn’t have it in stock and I wanted to get it done while I had time.
I’m sure it’s a good product.

 

[kschachn]

Look here for virgin oil analyses of those fluids. There are many who "believe" Idemitsu and Aisin DW ATF are the same, along with lots of "but Idemitsu makes the fluid for Honda", but they are 100% without question not the same fluids at all, in fact, not really even close to DW-1.

Correct. Amazing what people imagine sometimes without any information to back it up.

Not that it’s unsuitable, but that isn’t the same as identical. Even those fluids with an actual license such as Dexron-VI aren’t necessarily identical in formulation. They just happen to meet the licensing requirements.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Look here for virgin oil analyses of those fluids. There are many who "believe" Idemitsu and Aisin DW ATF are the same, along with lots of "but Idemitsu makes the fluid for Honda", but they are 100% without question not the same fluids at all, in fact, not really even close to DW-1.

Let's assume that's true... My question is, does it matter?
I generally use Honda DW-1 and sometimes Aisin equivalent in the Hondas I service.

I've used the Idemitsu TS-LV or whatever it is in our GS350 F Sport. I hope it's OK as this is an expensive car.
Of course we all know WS is lifetime fluid, right?

 

[thescreensavers]

I've used the Idemitsu TS-LV or whatever it is in our GS350 F Sport. I hope it's OK as this is an expensive car.
Of course we all know WS is lifetime fluid, right?

FWIW the TS-LV fluid is almost a perfect cloan of WS

 

[Hall]

Let's assume that's true... My question is, does it matter?

I won't debate anyone (not meaning you here, either) if it matters or not. I'm only pointing out that many people believe they're in fact identical fluids, whether based on the name of the fluid or who makes it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I won't debate anyone (not meaning you here, either) if it matters or not. I'm only pointing out that many people believe they're in fact identical fluids, whether based on the name of the fluid or who makes it.

Yeah, with the number of owners and shops who use differing fluids, I really don't know.
Kinda funny; I used a really good Toy/Lex shop to service our GS trans. They only used WS but took my Idemitsu 6 quarts. They completed the flush with about 5 more quarts of WS.

All good.

 

[Chief2025]

FWIW
I have used max in over a dozen different auto boxes.
Some shifted like OEM and some shifted a little crisper...but I prefer it to sloppy smooth shifts.

 

[Nessism1]

Sorry, repeating myself. I've mentioned this stuff in other threads here...

Used Maxlife in my 2006 Nissan Sentra transmission, and it didn't shift right afterwards. When cold, the trans had a delayed upshift, hanging in lower gears way too long. There were flared shifts, mushy slow shifts, all depending on load. It wasn't bad enough for me to swap it out, but I'd never use that stuff again.

The OEM engineers spend tons of time fine tuning the TCU. Tiny differences in shift logic programming can make noticeable changes. And needless to say all this tuning is done with the OEM fluid. Maybe some transmissions can digest generic fluid, but some won't.