Valvetrain Noise Honda

[vairox]

93' civic 172k... valves were checked and were within spec last year when this noise was still present, was told there are no lifters....rocker arms didnt need to be adjusted, cars with this many miles just make valvetrain noise? anything bad going to come of it?

also..

i know this is bad to do, but it makes weird valve noises when you start to go to around 5500 rpms in any gear.... you can hear it real good if you go from first to 5th (stick), where its really bogged down....sounds like valves hitting something....or something, bad timing belt? the timing is set right....maybe the belt skipped a tooth?

when i bought it in 2001 the valve cover gasket was not on right and oil was leaking out... maybe this did something to it, noise has been there since i bought it

 

[Drew99GT]

Shifting from 1st to 5th is not a good habit for an engine that makes 100 lb. ft. of torque at some ungodly high rpm! In a cummins diesel you could get away with it. But in your Civic, the noise you hear is likely the engine lugging. NOT GOOD

 

[GeaugaFletcher]

AFAIK, Hondas of that vintage DO need periodic valve lash adjustments. On the other hand, those valvetrains are often noisy.

I doubt the leaking valve cover gasket has anything to do with it.

 

[Master ACiD]

maybe its the rods knocking because you are abusing the engine by improper shifting technique.

 

[55Test]

1st to 5th in a Civic would put the rpm's at about 1300, so that's not good. You're lugging it at those rpm's. If you must skip gears when shifting, go 1t to 3rd to 5th. I'd recommend you just shift normally anyway. Those sounds you hear could be spark knock or carbon knock. Set your timing to 15 degrees, run some strong fuel system cleaner such as Techron or Fuel Power and see if it still makes the noise. A little bit of noise is acceptable, all Honda OHC engine make a bit of noise as they get older. If your cam has slipped a single tooth, then that wouldn't really cause any problem. If it retarded by one tooth, you would apparently get better fuel economy at the expense of engine power. If it advanced one tooth, of course you'd see a power increase, such as the way an advance cam timing sprocket would work. Check that timing belt, and replace it. It's probably due up by now.

 

[BearZDefect]

vairox, since your valve lash was adjusted correctly with no improvement I would guess that something in your engine unusually worn, because my early 94 civic (manufactured 93) with 209k mi only ticks when cold in winter weather.

If it continues to function well it is probably not worth worrying about. As others advised above, don't open the throttle wide at low RPMs. This engine is not well suited for skipping gears. Every Honda 4-cyl I've driven (not many really) had to be running over 2k rpm before I could open the throttle much without complaints. If you want the ponies out of this 1.5L engine you have to start at 4k rpm. It is not a high performance car.

 

[55Test]

My brother's 93 Civic and my 92 Accord make a little bit of valvetrain noise even when they're warmed up but I don't think it's anything to worry about. I suppose you'd hear more noise in an OHC engine anyway since all the valvetrain gear is right there in front of you. My brother did a 1st to 5th shift by bringing the car to 6000 in 1st, then shifting into 5th and the rpm's drop to about 1500 where there's no power. Even if he went all the way out to 7000 in 1st then shifting into 5th it'll only get you 1700 rpm or so when you shift. I just can't see any need to skip 4 gears like that.

 

[vairox]

the ones for adjusting the valves? i dont think anything under that valve cover has chrome on it, so should they be replaced? the noise kinda bugs me, it sounds like all that needs to be done is some tightening somewhere...

is it possible that the valve is being tapped by the piston on it's way out? im kinda lost... could just be lots of carbon, ill do the water thing, and either get some BG44k or techron (which is better?) ive tried the snap fuel system cleaner junk for the last 3 tanks of gas and i dont think it did much....though the octane booster stuff seems to work, might all be the same crap for all i know

 

[vairox]

pulled the plugs.... black soot, the ceramic parts look like they may have gotten a lil hot.

the cylinder all the way to the left, pulled that plug and there was some oil on the threads....not good i would guess, looked down through there with a flashlight, lots of carbon....did the distilled water thing and a lot of steam came out and a puddle of water, will check to see if the carbon is gone, i doubt it....there wasnt any on the ground when i was done (big tall glass of water, big gulp style)


btw one cylinder really smelled like gas, the others didnt smell at all...

 

[BearZDefect]

Oil on the spark plug threads sounds like leaking spark plug tube seals... the oil got into the spark plug tubes and when you removed the plug the oil went down onto the threads. Nothing to worry about in my opinion, may just blow a bit of smoke briefly after you replace the plug. To replace those seals you remove the valve cover.

I have never tried looking at my piston crowns, but my spark plugs come out all four looking the same and good, with a bit of oil that leaked into the tubes and wet the threads as they are removed.

 

[vairox]

i did that in an experiment to find the noise again and thats the way i found it.... i dont drive like that, no way... if you go to around 5500 rpms you hear it too....its weird

 

[Smoky14]

The adjusting screws on honda engines should be removed and check the tip for damaged chrome plating. They will pit and flake, the feeler gage will feel correct but the valves will be noisy.
This condition is common on their motorcycles as well.

 

[ex_MGB]

Pull the valve cover and gap and adjust it yourself. A rite of passage for every do it yourselfer. Costs nothing and easy to do.

Yes, old Hondas valve trains are a bit noisey, at least, my '89 Accord with 190k miles is.

 

[vairox]

bearszdefect - so it got in there from the valve cover and not piston rings? thats good to know...

ex_MGB - i did that about 2k ago, bosch platinums....though ive heard since that they are not good for hondas, atleast the civic...

the oil was a half quart low, must have went through that one spark plug hole and burned up.... car doesnt have ANY smoke out of the tailpipe that is ever visible... even on start up or high rpm revving.

 

[BearZDefect]

vairox, the spark plug tube is that black hole your spark plug disappears into in the valve cover, so I cannot imagine 1/2 quart of oil in there. You might have a leak somewhere else.

When the spark plug tube seals leak some oil slowly accumulates in the spark plug tube. You don't notice until you pull out the spark plug and find oil on the base that was sitting outside the cylinder. As you remove it some oil falls down onto the threads and most of the rest falls into the cylinder itself.

 

[vairox]

possibly, but theres no leaks ive ever seen in the driveway

 

[surfstar]

if you have a leak into the plug wells, it will never run down the engine or onto the driveway. just pull your spark plug boots and see if they have oil on the ends.

 

[V1]

Dude, you have 172,000 miles on your car? I bet you burned that half quart right through the rings.

 

[vairox]

V! - probably... no idea...if it did then there would be SOME smoke wouldnt there? nothing comes from the tailpipe. if its true then that could be why it failed smog last year, high NOX.... would ARX help this any?

surfstar - yeah on that one cylinder theres a little oil resudue on on the boot...

 

[BearZDefect]

vairox, I thought EGR was introduced to reduce NOx emissions, so high NOx may be from high combustion chamber temperatures caused by insufficient EGR flow to some (or all) cylinders.

I am sure there are experts around here that can give a more definitive suggestion.