Using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck oil in gas cars.

Foxtrot08 said:
Foaming is still a concern.

But again it depends on the oil. If you’re looking a 5w40, it’s going to have different anti foaming properties vs your bargain basement fleet 15w40 oil.

People running HDEO’s in PCEO applications aren’t running the cheapest of the cheap. They’re using very high end oils. Thus, formulated differently.

If you put *insert brand here* national account, fleet oil special 15w40, in a high revving bike, you’ll have a different outcome vs *insert brand here* 5w40 that is normally, a very premium product.
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Any concern about shearing in a shared sump due to the viscosity spread of a 5W-40, or is that mitigated by higher quality components that are typically used in the blend?
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
Any concern about shearing in a shared sump due to the viscosity spread of a 5W-40, or is that mitigated by higher quality components that are typically used in the blend?
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Shared sump, meaning with the clutch/transmission?
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
Correct
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That is your JASO MA & MA2 specs. If they’re certified for that, then no concerns. (The applicable MA or Ma2 spec.)

Those deal with the friction modifiers in the oil. And that they play nicely with the clutch materials.
 
Foxtrot08 said:
That is your JASO MA & MA2 specs. If they’re certified for that, then no concerns. (The applicable MA or Ma2 spec.)

Those deal with the friction modifiers in the oil. And that they play nicely with the clutch materials.
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i haven’t yet seen a 5W-40 JASO certified diesel oil. I guess that’s what this all circles back to in general, is that people keep saying “well a diesel oil is fine if it meets the right specs”, but almost no diesel oils seem to meet JASO anymore. They used to, but things change.

That’s part of why I don't understand it when people keep thinking that diesel oil is a grail product that works well for every application. That isn’t the case imo.
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
i haven’t yet seen a 5W-40 JASO certified diesel oil. I guess that’s what this all circles back to in general, is that people keep saying “well a diesel oil is fine if it meets the right specs”, but almost no diesel oils seem to meet JASO anymore. They used to, but things change.

That’s part of why I don't understand it when people keep thinking that diesel oil is a grail product that works well for every application. That isn’t the case imo.
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Rotella T6 is JASO MA / MA2 certified.


Some others are. But that’s the “normal” one.
 
OVERKILL said:
Maybe it's fuel? Were these Blackstone reports?
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I doubt it’s fuel. I don’t have any Blackstone reports handy but even on BITOG if you google Rotella T6 shearing in motorcycles there‘s a number of threads and posters that have experienced it. I don’t know if you ride bikes at all, but you can tell when the oil has sheared down by the feel at the shift lever. Shift quality goes from slick to rough/notchy. People tend to find that T4 actually maintains positive shift quality in bikes longer than T6 does, which I find to be surprising.
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
I doubt it’s fuel. I don’t have any Blackstone reports handy but even on BITOG if you google Rotella T6 shearing in motorcycles there‘s a number of threads and posters that have experienced it. I don’t know if you ride bikes at all, but you can tell when the oil has sheared down by the feel at the shift lever. Shift quality goes from slick to rough/notchy. People tend to find that T4 actually maintains positive shift quality in bikes longer than T6 does, which I find to be surprising.
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My old quad (now my son's) has a shared sump. I haven't owned a road-going bike since like 1999, so no recent experience there, just with the quad which seems to do just fine on D1 5W-40.

That said, I'd still like to see a report from a lab that uses GC and shows no real fuel and significant visc loss to support the premise that it's shear. It's quite possible for sure, I just know that what gets blamed on shear is very often actually fuel when folks are using Blackstone.
 
twX said:
API used to allow high phosphorus levels in SN oils as long as they were 40 weight or higher, but I don't think that it has been allowed since the past year or two. Shell's Rotella line also used to have both JASO MA2 and SN designations, but the SN designation was removed recently. It could be that it will also be removed from the Ultra 4T, or maybe it has been already. I could only find a data sheet for that oil from 2019. Maybe there is an exception for motorcycle specific oils.
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Another one which is what I use in my CBR which calls for 10w30 viscosity, I should have mention this instead of the ultra. SN, JASO MA2 and 30 viscosity.

MOTUL 7100 10W-30 4T - Motul

MOTUL 7100 10W-30 4T - Motul
www.motul.com
 
OVERKILL said:
My old quad (now my son's) has a shared sump. I haven't owned a road-going bike since like 1999, so no recent experience there, just with the quad which seems to do just fine on D1 5W-40.

That said, I'd still like to see a report from a lab that uses GC and shows no real fuel and significant visc loss to support the premise that it's shear. It's quite possible for sure, I just know that what gets blamed on shear is very often actually fuel when folks are using Blackstone.
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Fair point on wanting to see UOAs but l doubt it's a fuel dilution issue when it happens on modern port injected engines with good compression and when it can he experienced at different mileages depending on the oil.

For example I used Maxima ProPlus+ 10W-40 in my bike three times and all three times the shifting quality degraded badly within 1100 - 1300 miles. Now I've been using Valvoline 4T synthetic 10W-40 and the shifting feel lasts longer. People experience it with T4 vs T6, and other different oils too. Some people on this forum call T6 a "shear monster". If it were a fuel issue then wouldn't it be the same experience across different oils as long as they were the same weight?
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
Good info. Interesting that T6 is the oil that has been known to sheer out of grade in shared sump bikes though in recent years. I genuinely wonder why that is the case
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My statement is: Friends don’t let friends use Rotella.

But I’m not going to get into a brand debate or really go into the shearing issues that Rotella has, or doesn’t have, hypothetically. As brand debates don’t really go anywhere.

The point is, it will work, is certified to work, and people do use it in the application in question. How long it works, is a completely different story, or if it’s the “best” product for the application, is also a completely different story.

People ask me about bike oils and I just default recommend the applicable redline product, personally.
 
I’ve been using “diesel truck” Rotella T6 5w-40 in my built and boosted Miata for many years without issue, on the street and track (road course with 20 minute sessions, not quick drag strip passes). Blackstone labs have never found an issue and I’ve sent every single oil change for analysis. Be aware of the added zinc content not playing nice with your catalytic converter, but I don’t have one of those anyway.
 
cheesepuffs2 said:
Fair point on wanting to see UOAs but l doubt it's a fuel dilution issue when it happens on modern port injected engines with good compression and when it can he experienced at different mileages depending on the oil.

For example I used Maxima ProPlus+ 10W-40 in my bike three times and all three times the shifting quality degraded badly within 1100 - 1300 miles. Now I've been using Valvoline 4T synthetic 10W-40 and the shifting feel lasts longer. People experience it with T4 vs T6, and other different oils too. Some people on this forum call T6 a "shear monster". If it were a fuel issue then wouldn't it be the same experience across different oils as long as they were the same weight?
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As I said, it's certainly possible, I'd just like to see some actual supporting data.

On the fuel question, does the bike shift fine before it warms up on Rotella (when the oil is heavier)? Because of course it could be something other than visc loss too causing that problem.
 
Paco Pena said:
The turbo on a diesel can spin at 100,000 rpm? Diesel oil must be pretty capable.

Paco
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Aren't there other factors involved though? The size crank pins churning oil in the pan are so much larger than a turbo wheel spinning. I get that the turbine is spinning faster, but which one is really creating more agitation? I don't have that answer, I'm just saying it most likely isn't that cut and dry.
 
OVERKILL said:
As I said, it's certainly possible, I'd just like to see some actual supporting data.

On the fuel question, does the bike shift fine before it warms up on Rotella (when the oil is heavier)? Because of course it could be something other than visc loss too causing that problem.
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I've never personally run Rotella (or any diesel oil) in my bike so I can't speak to that specifically, but I'll say from experience with motorcycle specific oils, when the shifting degrades it's across the board, doesn't matter hot or cold. All the sudden you realize the shifter doesn't "snick" up into the next gear the same, you get false neutrals sometimes, and it feels rough.

Then you change the oil and the transmission feels brand new again. It can get so bad that it feels like something is mechanically wrong, and that's why a lot of motorcycle guys change their oil more often than the manual suggests. Like, my manual calls for 7,500 mile changes, but there's zero chance I'll ever do that, because even if the oil is safe to run, I still want that like-new shift feel again, and my bike only takes 1.1 quarts anyway. I change my oil about every 1,600 miles for this reason.
 
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