Used car pricing

[otis24]

We are all at the in-laws in Colorado for Christmas. Wife's parents went to Lafayette for Thanksgiving. The b-I-L and S-I-L rode back to Colorado with them. They had planned to purchase a vehicle in Colorado to drive back and pull their boat back to LA. Both dealers and private party had their vehicles priced a couple of grand over retail per KBB/NADA. Now, I know you can ask what you want for your vehicle. Fair game. From the dealer's perspective, I know you hope to find a sucker that is desparate that will pay more than retail. But when you are staring at NADA on the computer screen and it says "clean retail $8900", I'm not sure what words a dealer uses to try to justify the higher price. Particularly when the "buyer" says they are seriously interested in the vehicle. As a former car salesman, I had the same thing happen when people wanted to trade their vehicles They often wanted a couple grand over retail. I would often respond to them "You don't want to pay retail price for my brand new vehicle. What makes your vehicle worth MORE than retail price?". i would only be met with blank stares.

 

[69GTX]

Sometimes the KBB values are complete bunk. I find this most often occurs for lower mileage vehicles, especially those with less than 50K miles and more than 8-10 years old. KBB says my 1999 SS M6 is worth $8,694 in very good, private party condition ($9,057 in perfect condition). That's idiocy. You can't find a similar car anywhere in the country for under $11K. It would probably take $12K to $12.5K to buy a similar one. For the right car in immaculate condition I would most certainly pay over KBB top retail price. You wouldn't have to twist my arm either.

I suspect KBB is inaccurate for most lower mileage cars as they tend to give way too little value for 1-2 owner cars with minimal miles. No doubt the car dealerships love this when they are buying. And then when they are selling they can quote what these cars are really bringing around the nation (completed sales on autotrader, ebay, etc.) KBB and NADA are tools to be used....they aren't bibles and cannot account for all the variations in car values across the country. When I bought my 2002 Continental in 2009 with 22K miles no doubt the KBB value on the car was on the low side....a plus for me. KBB doesn't even give a premium to a 6 speed vs. automatic on many on the 1993-2006 performance cars. The 6 speeds are typically worth an extra 7-10%. So that's a $1,000 error right there on any $10K car. I certainly wouldn't accept KBB top retail for my car....unless it got another 50,000 miles added to it.

 

[javacontour]

I think the problem today is many dealers are selling financing. If it says "buy here-pay here" or "EZ financing" or other similar phrases on the dealership ad copy, they are not selling cars. They are selling credit.

They can charge over retail because their target buyer is worried about getting approved, not about the price of the car.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I think the problem today is many dealers are selling financing. If it says "buy here-pay here" or "EZ financing" or other similar phrases on the dealership ad copy, they are not selling cars. They are selling credit.

They can charge over retail because their target buyer is worried about getting approved, not about the price of the car.



Yep!


Watched a neighbor with decent credit (like 680) get "suckered" into not only paying and extra grand for his Ford Fusion, but had "needed" things "required" to get his credit approved. 16 grand for a car selling for 11995!

Have to really watch the sales pitch....

 

[Jimzz]

Pricing guides are slow when there are major changes in the market. Right now the biggest change is gas cost so short term memory idiots... I mean buyers are buying them as who cares about gas mileage when gas is less than $2 a gallon. As such my Dakota I bought 2 years ago is worth more now then when I bought it.

So if they were looking for trucks or large V8 SUVs then that is why.

 

[69GTX]

I checked KBB again on what my car would be worth dropping from 17K miles down to 7K. That's a premium of +$245 for 10K miles. I'd pay that all day long. The car maxes out at $9,450 with 1 mile on the odometer.

For comparison I looked at the more popular 2002 Camaro SS M6 with 8900 miles. I know these typically have been trading in the $15K-$16.5K range in 2015. KBB top retail value is $11,686, about 25% low. Dealer trade in is $10,550. Where can I buy one? Fwiw, this isn't something new. These prices have been whacked for the past 4 years when I started following them.

Just for giggles, I looked up my current DD 2002 Lincoln with the same mileage I orig bought it with....22K miles. KBB max retail value is $4,220 for 22K miles in excellent condition. Holy carp. I figure I could get $4K for my car today at 68K miles. I doubt you could find such a vehicle for under $8K. I'd gladly pay $6,500 (54% over "retail") for a clean 1 owner vehicle that's been fully maintained. KBB accurate? You be the judge.

 

[shiny]

Suggest you compare prices at www.Beepi.com against local dealers. I sold my 2012 Accent to Beepi. It was the smoothest, most honest car transaction I've ever had. They beat my highest offer by $1000, then later sold the car for about $1000 less than local dealers were asking. I met a woman who bought her car from Beepi. She said it was the best car transaction she'd ever had. We were both grinning like fools. Felt like we were part of a neat little club that nobody else knows about.

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: daves87rs
Originally Posted By: javacontour
I think the problem today is many dealers are selling financing. If it says "buy here-pay here" or "EZ financing" or other similar phrases on the dealership ad copy, they are not selling cars. They are selling credit.

They can charge over retail because their target buyer is worried about getting approved, not about the price of the car.



Yep!


Watched a neighbor with decent credit (like 680) get "suckered" into not only paying and extra grand for his Ford Fusion, but had "needed" things "required" to get his credit approved. 16 grand for a car selling for 11995!

Have to really watch the sales pitch....


680 is a bit lower than decent if by decent you mean good.


Excellent Credit: 750+
Good Credit: 700-749
Fair Credit: 650-699
Poor Credit: 600-649
Bad Credit: below 600

 

[Boczech]

We are looking for a car for my BIL and open to trying the site. Thanks for the link and we will give it a whirl.


Hasta
B

 

[SwampSurvivor]

It's hard to find a good deal on a used car around here, often times, they are priced more than new.

The used car lot across from work (my favorite to use as an example), has a 2010 Nissan Versa for $10K. 6 year old rental car with 50K miles. Don't understand it.

 

[cptbarkey]

Try going to a buy-here-pay-here lot and argue blue/black/kbb pricing. You are going nowhere fast. Pay or leave.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

They might give it to you for KBB value ...

...

If you finance for 15 years at 30% interest

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Try going to a buy-here-pay-here lot and argue blue/black/kbb pricing. You are going nowhere fast. Pay or leave.


Yup. Just find those 15% of dealers or private owners who will sell a nice vehicle for a price in line with KBB, or less. I usually won't even bother going to look at a car if it's not already within 10% of what I'd pay. Why waste time with the upper 90% that really don't want to sell their vehicle unless they can find a sucker? I usually find a car worthy of buying after looking at 2-3 cars...after weeding out the other 90% from home.

 

[hattaresguy]

They are counting on Mr. 650 credit score who doesn't care what the vehicle costs. Just that someone will give them credit and they can make the payments.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
It's hard to find a good deal on a used car around here, often times, they are priced more than new.

The used car lot across from work (my favorite to use as an example), has a 2010 Nissan Versa for $10K. 6 year old rental car with 50K miles. Don't understand it.

It is also true in So Cal.

When my daughter bought her new 2014 Accord LX the used 2012-2013 Accord LX with some dealer add-on junkies were price higher than the deal I had been able to get for her(after several rebates).

But once in a while you may be able to get a good deal on used vehicle if you're LUCKY.