Upper cylinder lube in cat equipped cars

[Skippy722]

The vehicles run better with it. Try it. You'll notice a difference almost immediately.

Tried it once in a 2011 Durango with the 5.7 hemi. Made absolutely no difference.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Sorry, we must keep high mileage Toyotas out of all discussions. It is unfair to mention 450k mile Toyotas especially when other lesser makes are owned by forum members.

Fuel pump motor wear can also be related to fuel pump motor load... so, maybe a fuel UCL, will make the pump last longer since the load is less?

Honestly, concerning fuel pumps, some automakers have excellent suppliers and other automakers source some junk pumps. So, again, you Toyota/Honda owners should just quit bragging because you are being unfair to the other forum members that don't own those makes.

 

[OVERKILL]

Sorry, we must keep high mileage Toyotas out of all discussions. It is unfair to mention 450k mile Toyotas especially when other lesser makes are owned by forum members.

Fuel pump motor wear can also be related to fuel pump motor load... so, maybe a fuel UCL, will make the pump last longer since the load is less?

Honestly, concerning fuel pumps, some automakers have excellent suppliers and other automakers source some junk pumps. So, again, you Toyota/Honda owners should just quit bragging because you are being unfair to the other forum members that don't own those makes.

Can I pass you a baby wipe? You've got a piece of corn on your lip...

 

[AutoMechanic]

I’ve only had one electric fuel pump fail and one mechanical one. They are well designed. The vehicle the electric one failed in was our 1994 Ford Econoline and we replaced it and it’s fine now. The mechanical fuel pump on my truck failed and I replaced it and it’s fine. Never used Upper Cylinder Lubricant. We touched briefly on it in school but honestly I don’t see reason to use it. All my cars have a cat too. Don’t know if it would hurt it or not don’t think so. Stabil is great fuel stabilizer I use it. And every fill up I use a can of Berryman too and my vehicles run like champs.

 

[MolaKule]

Just checked the msds of mom, and it does have a little phosphorus in it so maybe will quit using it in vehicles with cats.

I wouldn't call 630 ppm (from most recent analysis) to 650 ppm (from analysis done in 2009) dosages of phos a "little."

 

[Skippy722]

Sorry, we must keep high mileage Toyotas out of all discussions. It is unfair to mention 450k mile Toyotas especially when other lesser makes are owned by forum members.

Fuel pump motor wear can also be related to fuel pump motor load... so, maybe a fuel UCL, will make the pump last longer since the load is less?

Honestly, concerning fuel pumps, some automakers have excellent suppliers and other automakers source some junk pumps. So, again, you Toyota/Honda owners should just quit bragging because you are being unfair to the other forum members that don't own those makes.

I don’t think Toyota owners are bragging about their supposed superiority after this one...

Toyota's fuel pump recall now covers nearly 6 million vehicles globally

Toyota expanded a worldwide fuel pump recall to a total of 5.84 million vehicles. In the United States, the total number of vehicles involved in this safety recall is 3.34 million vehicles.

www.autoblog.com

 

[Astro14]

Can we define what the OP means by "old" and "classic"...because those mean different things to each of us...

I don't consider 20 year old cars as "classics".

AACA defines classic as pre WW II. I'm OK with that definition.

Beyond that understanding, "Classic" for me ends in about 1970 and wouldn't have a catalytic converter.

A very different thing than a late 90s or early 2000s car.

 

[Greasymechtech]

New Toyota.... only a few pumps failed. Looks like Toyota went to a Ford/GM/Mopar pump supplier... Denso screwed the pooch and no one will admit off-shore parts manufacturing yet.

And, my comment is directly pointed at the bazillion mile older minivan IN THIS THREAD.

 

[stangguy]

Can we define what the OP means by "old" and "classic"...because those mean different things to each of us...

I don't consider 20 year old cars as "classics".

AACA defines classic as pre WW II. I'm OK with that definition.

Beyond that understanding, "Classic" for me ends in about 1970 and wouldn't have a catalytic converter.

A very different thing than a late 90s or early 2000s car.

What I meant when I said my classic cars was referring to other cars I have and have had, not the 98 mustang. I also have a 65 mustang and just recently sold my 64 ranchero, and I have had many others even older over the last several years. At the present time I have a 98 mustang, a 65 mustang, and a 2017 Nissan Frontier. Those are the only ones I am concerned about. Well not the 65 as it doesn't have a cat of course.

 

[stangguy]

I wouldn't call 630 ppm (from most recent analysis) to 650 ppm (from analysis done in 2009) dosages of phos a "little."

Wow, didn't know it had that much. That is as much as the oil in the crankcase. Luckily I have not been using it in the Frontier, and I don' t think I have it in the 98 mustang either. I suppose even if it is in this tank of gas, one tank probably won't hurt the cats too much, right , I hope.

 

[4WD]

I wouldn't call 630 ppm (from most recent analysis) to 650 ppm (from analysis done in 2009) dosages of phos a "little."

I was reading a list of gasoline additives ... multiple detergents, corrosion protection, anti cohesion, and FM etc …

Is the FM sometimes referred to as an UCL …
And seems with fuel getting into the oil there is a pathway for additives …

 

[Blinker]

I was reading a list of gasoline additives ... multiple detergents, corrosion protection, anti cohesion, and FM etc …

Is the FM sometimes referred to as an UCL …
And seems with fuel getting into the oil there is a pathway for additives …

I’ve wondered the same thing. Both Shell and ExxonMobil tout the FM in their premium fuel.

 

[MolaKule]

I was reading a list of gasoline additives ... multiple detergents, corrosion protection, anti cohesion, and FM etc …

Is the FM sometimes referred to as an UCL …
And seems with fuel getting into the oil there is a pathway for additives …

In the SAE papers there is a paper called, The Performance of a Gasoline Friction Modifier Fuel Additive, by Texaco researchers.

This was an additive for the fuel that purports to add FM along with the fuel stream. The oils used were a 30 monograde and a 5W30 multigrade in a Buick 3.8L, Sequence VI-A test.

However, upon close inspection of the paper, the total improvement of the fuel + the FM was a 0.46% BSFC improvement and only at oil temps above 225F. 0.46% is 0.0046 X the base line.

In my view, the friction curves with the 5W30 with and without the FM were so close I do not think this is enough improvement to definitely show any efficacy.

To me, this falls into the "new gimmick so it must be good" marketing category.

 

[4WD]

This is what BASF is selling

https://d2evkimvhatqav.cloudfront.net/documents/BASF_Fricition_Modifiers_for_Gasoline_EEA_Final_Oct2012.pdf#:~:text=The%20Friction%20Modifiers%20for%20Gasoline%20Eco-effiicency%20Analysis%20was,NSF%20International%20under%20the%20requirements%20of%20Protocol%20P352.

 

[MolaKule]

This is what BASF is selling

I didn't see any BSFC verses temperature graphs or charts with the different oil types used, so it tells me nothing technically.

 

[michael007]

I came across this paper which seems to support the use of additives to increase lubricity and prevent wear.

pdf link: https://docdro.id/0c3v6ia

 

[Dave1027]

I have been using TCW3 @ 640:1 for almost 10 years in my now 16yo 190k mile Sienna after reading about it in the LS1 forum. The cats, fuel pump, and fuel injectors are all original and it runs like a champ, so it certainly hasn't hurt anything. If memory serves, in another thread someone had tested TCW3 (I think it was Walmart's Super Tech) and found that it had no ZDDP in it.

The usage of tcw3 in my '07 Tacoma restored it's performance to like it was when it was new. Don't tell it that it's an old geezer with 170k+ miles on it. It thinks it's still a pup.

 

[kschachn]

The usage of tcw3 in my '07 Tacoma restored it's performance to like it was when it was new. Don't tell it that it's an old geezer with 170k+ miles on it. It thinks it's still a pup.

When my old Sienna only had 170k miles it was a pup.

 

[Trav]

I have always been a fan of using a UCL in my old classic cars. I mostly use MMO, but now sometimes use tcw3 also. (one or the other, not both). BUT, my question is on cars new enough to have cats on them, is the oil in the UCL going to be a problem of harming the cat. I have been using (for the past year or so) tcw3 in my 2017 Nissan Frontier 4.0. I have only put around 3000 miles on it in that time due to less driving due to the virus, but I am wondering if I should discontinue using it ? I don't want to hear that it is not needed, just want to know if it is harmful. Thanks.
Also, what about sta-bil ? Does it contain oil? I store my 98 mustang with stabil and am wondering if that is harmful to the cats.

Many years ago (probably over 40) it may have had some benefit but not anymore. When was the last time anyone has had to use a ridge reamer on a modern engine, I haven't needed to use one in many years in fact many engines still have the cross hatch.
So the question is what if anything is the UCL doing, where is it helping with wear? The answer is it isn't, feel good factor nothing more or less.