Updates and Corrections

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14,013
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Retired | Wausau, WI
There have been several question asked of me on this board. Instead of me trying to find all of them I will try to answer them here. I will also eat a little crow. Someone asked me what the ZDDP and PHOS levels were on our Long Life 15W40 oil. ZDDP is 1,200ppm and PHOS is 1,000ppm. Someone asked about the NOACK % off on our 10W30 synthetic oil. With the SJ rated oil it was 4.4% but with the new SL rated oil it is 7.8%. I will talk more about tech sheets later on this post. Wal-Mart oil. Now I eat crow and plead for forgivness. [bowdown] There was a company called Speciality Oil in Shreveport that was purchased by the old Quaker State Company. Speciality Oil produced an oil called Lubriguard that was very popular in the South and Southeast. They also had blending plants in San Antonio and Alabama. After Quaker State purchased Speciality oil, they started making Wal-Mart oil. When Pennzoil bought Quaker State this continued for awhile. A decision was made that we did not need the Lubriguard product in our line so we sold the plants in San Antonio and Alabama to Warren Oil Company. So, the Wal-Mart oil is made by two different companies. The old Speciality plant in Shreveport and by Warren oil (I think they have 5 plants in the Southeast now). They also still make the Lubriguard product and if you live in the South, you have probably seen this product. I do not know how the distribution is laid out or which one sends oil to Canada. That is Wal-Mart's call. Technical Sheets: Let me start this by saying that we live in a country where anyone will sue you if you smile the wrong way. It is no secret and I have tried to lay it on the line, that in this business it is all about market share and volume. Dog eat dog, as they say. I am now going to talk about passenger car oil only now and what the industry considers the BIG 4. That is Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline, and Castrol. These 4 brands control and dominate the market share in the USA and we will use anything to gain an advantage over the other. Example: We use to state all technical data on our spec sheets. We ran the NOACK % off test and it showed 7.8 and we published it. One of our competiors pulled some of the product off the shelf and tested it to read 8.1. Guess what, they sued us for false advertising. So a decision was made by our legal department (and I'm sure other oil companies legal departments) to just list that we meet the current specs. This is sad, but it is the life style we live in. Now one might ask why do companies like Schaeffer's, Red Line, Amsoil, and a few others have more detailed spec sheets. Basically the BIG 4 do not care about these companies. They are not a threat to our over all market share and volume. But you can be sure, if any of the above became a threat to any of the BIG 4 in any way, and they smiled the wrong way, they would be in court. And after they were in and out of court enough, their legal departments would say, change those spec sheets. I do not like this approach and I'm sure other oil company reps don't like it either. But that's the legal, corporate way of doing things and I guess we will just have to live with it. Now I did not list Mobil 1 in this catagory, but they are the big dog when it comes to synthetics. I firmly believe one reason there is not more data on the new SuperSyn is, if they smile the wrong way, you know who will sue them. [Cheers!]
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny: Now one might ask why do companies like Schaeffer's, Red Line, Amsoil, and a few others have more detailed spec sheets. Basically the BIG 4 do not care about these companies. They are not a threat to our over all market share and volume. But you can be sure, if any of the above became a threat to any of the BIG 4 in any way, and they smiled the wrong way, they would be in court. [Cheers!]
If the big 4 didn't care about some I wonder why some company with a Z sued another becuause it had a Z in its name, which now contains an S? [I dont know] And that was way back in the 1970's when they were really dinky.
 

Johnny

Thread starter
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14,013
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Retired | Wausau, WI
Because ZOIL is a registered trademark of Pennzoil. Just my point. Some one, AMSOIL stepped on their toes. It is really silly, but big corporations take things like this very seriously. That's why you will never see a Pennzoil 1 or a Valvoline 1. You will never see Amsoil MaxLife or 4X4. All trademarks of someone else. Sorry, I had nothing to do with it.
 
Messages
3,346
Location
Clarksville, Tennessee
quote:
Originally posted by Johnny: Because ZOIL is a registered trademark of Pennzoil. Just my point. Some one, AMSOIL stepped on their toes. It is really silly, but big corporations take things like this very seriously. That's why you will never see a Pennzoil 1 or a Valvoline 1. You will never see Amsoil MaxLife or 4X4. All trademarks of someone else. Sorry, I had nothing to do with it.
And Al last name is Amatuzio, So did penzoil register every possible combination as a trademark? I don't know. You would think that the PENZ would be registered being that OIL is a generic term. Not that it really matters anymore, since in the last few years Amsoil has expanded their trademark exponentially.
 
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1,874
Location
Ocala, Florida
I think this leads to a good point. there has been many times that schaeffers posted things but have been on the conservative side on many things are very carefull not to overstep for the same reason other companies do. This may be one of those instances that the HT/HS #'s that are posted is such a case but yet they do say it passes. [Confused]
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,686
Location
Iowegia - USA
Johnny, If he had named his oil AMATUZOIL, I bet there would be a fight between him and Amazon.com! [Big Grin] VaderSS, From my info (I am not a legal-beagle), if any info appears in the public domain, such as published MSDS or Tech Specs, one cannot be sued unless there is an alteration of those specs by someone with criminal intent. I would think that expressing a public opinion about a product is a free speech right protected under the Constitution. Consumer Reports does this all the time. Yes they have had to eat crow, but haven't we all! If someone were to post the results of say, an exhaustive virgin oil analysis for educational benefits, and prefaced it with the statement that it was for educational benefit, I don't see how one could win in court if they sued you. Of course, just having to answer a charge and spend money for defense might deter someone for doing that. Anyone can seemly sue for anything; winning a case is a different matter. Let's say for example that a new oil hits the market and someone posts the patent disclosure on this oil to learn more about it and the post includes a commentary that is accurate. How could one sue and for what reason unless there is a proven criminal intent to distort and or to defame the product? I have many books on oil formulation patent disclosures from 1957 on. Have the book companies that made these disclosures ever been sued. No. Why? They are for research and other educational purposes.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,686
Location
Iowegia - USA
Johnny, " Now one might ask why do companies like Schaeffer's, Red Line, Amsoil, and a few others have more detailed spec sheets. Basically the BIG 4 do not care about these companies. They are not a threat to our over all market share and volume. But you can be sure, if any of the above became a threat to any of the BIG 4 in any way, and they smiled the wrong way, they would be in court." True Johnny, but the courts have historically looked down on Goilath's beating up little David's as well. Secondly, a small company can countersue for restraint of free trade, as well. I have been an EW for a number of unnamed, smaller cases, and let me tell you, it gets nasty at times.
 
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2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
A legal dispute between online aquatic plant enthusiasts and a pet supply store illustrates the perils of casual opining on the Web. http://salon.com/tech/feature/2002/04/04/aquatic_plants/index.html Basically, an aquatic listserve member in Virginia bought some plants via the internet through a company in NY that also is a member of that listserve. The customer posted about the poor service & goods. The company sued that individual, as well as several more as the listserve started to buzz about the affair. The customer settled out of court & paid $4,500. Another aquatic website owner who posted details on the lawsuit was sued, & aquised her website & domain name to to the suing company! Geez....! We have been involved in group purchase deals, and posted about poor business practices in looking out for each other.
 
Messages
3,327
Location
Bolivia
This rounding to just under limits was what I expected when I mentioned the noak of Chevron...... just under the E5 limit. It's also why most spec sheets have a disclaimer that they are "typical" but can vary within batches. It's also why McDonald's "Quarter Pounder" weighs on average 4.07 ounces instead of 4 ounces. Guarantees that no one recieves 3.9999 ounces.
 
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3,649
Location
St. Charles County, Missouri
Johnny-- Interesting about the sale of the Shreveport blending plant to Warren. I've e-mailed them asking for new spec. sheets. I think one of the early posters here or on Edmunds had warnings about Warren, although I usually don't take such things seriously. Question-- 1. Why did Pennzoil send me a SuperTech spec. sheet? (old stuff lying around the office and the business of oil is so complex that they didn't know about the sale?) 2. The Warren site has a list of all of their properties, and the Shreveport plant isn't listed. Is this deal new in the last month or so? [Confused]
 
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3,693
Location
Chattanooga, TN
Pets Warehouse Appears the issue was not so much the defamation of the name but that the listserve refused to permit the company to reply to the comments on the board. Certainly not the case on this site as we know from the RX experience.
 

Johnny

Thread starter
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14,013
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Retired | Wausau, WI
<b>csandste:</b> Misunderstanding. We did not sell the Shreveport plant. We sold the San Antonio and Alabama plant. The old Speciality division in Shreveport is still making Wal-Mart oil. That's why you got the spec sheet from Pennzoil. Boy I bet they are confused at the tech center now.
 
Messages
349
Location
Quebec, Canada
How pathetic is this? http://dailynews.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=571&ncid=751&e=1&u=/nm/20020726/hl_nm/fastfood_dc Anyway, Johnny, very good post. This explains why Oil companies never reply to my emails [Razz] I do fail to see the logic behind your quote: Example: We use to state all technical data on our spec sheets. We ran the NOACK % off test and it showed 7.8 and we published it. One of our competiors pulled some of the product off the shelf and tested it to read 8.1. Guess what, they sued us for false advertising. Isn't the point of numbering tests (such ASTM #s) to reproduce the result using the EXACT same test? If certain things like NOACK values prove to be false, then what does this say about the rest of values stated in everybody's spec. sheet? If this is their reason, then it's completely absurd. I'm not mad at you Johnny, just goes to show how smart lawyers can be, and how dumb companies can be. [Mad] Oz
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,686
Location
Iowegia - USA
Did we ever determine if the Walmart Synthetic was a Group III or full synth? Has anyone posted MSDS sheets on it? I couldn't find any references to it> Just saw some bottles at the local Walmart here in Doo-DA land. [Big Grin]
 
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2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
I e-mailed them and it's made by Quaker State/Pennzoil, so I'd guess Group III.
quote:
Thank you for your message. Please contact Quaker state/Penzoil at (888) 868-4889. Thank you. For further correspondence regarding this issue, please reply to this email. ----Your Original Comments Were---- I am interested in the specs of th Wal-Mart Synthetic > > Motor oil. Not just ratings on the bottle, but the > > makeup of the oil. Base stock, additives, pour > > points, actual test results, etc. Thank you, Wayne
[ July 30, 2002, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
 

Johnny

Thread starter
Messages
14,013
Location
Retired | Wausau, WI
The_Oz: I agree, it is absurd. I also agree with you about corporate lawyers and corporate marketing decisions. [Mad] Molakule: I have been told the Wal-Mart synthetic our division makes is a Group III. I have no idea what type synthetic Warren Oil makes, but I would guess it is also Group III. [ July 30, 2002, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]
 
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5,336
Location
London, AR
Johnny, Ironic that you mention Corporations and their protective status. I also belong to Ford-Diesel.Com. It is a site with 23,320 registered members as of 2 minutes ago. On 7/29/02 they received a "Cease and Desist" order from Ford Motor Company. So the site will now be Diesel-Pickup.com. I just hope Rudy Diesel doesn't resurrect and claim that name also.
 

Johnny

Thread starter
Messages
14,013
Location
Retired | Wausau, WI
As a matter of fact PENNZ, not penz is registered. From my history lesson the company started from South Penn Oil Company. The Z came into play because of Zapata Oil Company that South Penn Oil Company bought. This is also where the Z-7 additive name came from. So, they just put it all together as PENNZOIL. Now, if old Al would have named his company Amz-Oil or TUZOIL there would not have been a problem. By the way, I personally met Al back in 1983. One heck of a nice guy. Now the word OIL is generic. Like Mobil Oil, Shell Oil or Schaeffer's Oil. But if any of these changed their names, like Mobilzoil, NO, NO. [ July 30, 2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Johnny ]
 
Messages
2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
The trade mark name suing business cracks me up. Anyone remember AutoShack? Radio Shack made them change their name. Berreta gun manufacturer sued Chevy. There are many more. I like this one; http://www.nissan.com/ As for sue-happy companies, it is possible to get sued for stating your opinion and/or experience of a product or company on a forum. It has happened... [ July 30, 2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
 
Messages
5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
Thanks, Johnny. I was the one who asked you way back about the ZDDP content of Pennzoil's 15W40. This is a little more than average and I assume the TBN rating is pretty good as well. I like to use these oils in air-cooled lawn& Garden equipment. They tend to sit and sit and sit ... then are run hard in am emergency or special circumstance. [Smile] --- Bror Jace "I was a patriot before being a patriot was cool." [Patriot]
 
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