GM removed EOS from market in USA some time ago. It contained boat loads of ZDDP wich has the nasty phosphorus that GM fears in it. It also had VII's and some bright stock. THe EOS will still be in the chemical catalog because they have not printed a new chemical catalog in years. THeir is also going to be dealers that still have some and are still selling it. GM does not even add an EOS like product to new engines anymore. They use regualr OTC oil.
Update on dealer rebuilt LS1....bad news!
- Thread starter Chris B.
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I have followed this thread and others concerning the piston slap. Are the dealers replacing the pistons with ones just like the old ones? That seems kinda dumb, if the first ones have a problem replacing them with ones just like em wont do any good.
They are not measuring the bores? Or does GM allow large clearances? Why doesn't GM sell pistons with a slightly larger diameter to correct the problem instead of throwing parts at it?
GM has been building engines for a long time and to have these problems is totally uncalled for.
They are not measuring the bores? Or does GM allow large clearances? Why doesn't GM sell pistons with a slightly larger diameter to correct the problem instead of throwing parts at it?
GM has been building engines for a long time and to have these problems is totally uncalled for.
for what it's worth, if it runs good and doesn't use oil then I'd say live with it. In all practicality, is it worth fighting the dealer for a new motor? Or for another rebuild? I think it's been proven that new pistons, new rings, or a complete rebuild or new crate motor doesn't guarantee you a noise-knock free LS1 engine. You can find enough threads over at the camaro/firebird and ls1 forums about this. If it actually breaks or starts using excessive oil, then it's justifyable. I say get the GM oil additive for break-in, or at least ask the dealer about it. Add it now, it's not going to hurt I don't think. You said you have 500 miles on it so far right? My personal opinion, for engine break-in only, is to get a few hours on it of fast idle (under ~2k rpms) little load to break in the cam. Then get a decent load on it so the rings seat well, and vary rpms frequently. Keep max rev's under 3k for first few hours then keep max rev's under 4k revs for next few hours. Don't bring it close to 5k after you have about 10 hours or so. Getting on the highway hard, uphill, often would be a good thing, with upshifting to keep the revs where you want them.
The reason for "500 easy miles for break-in" is for new cars, which you are also breaking-in the tranny and more importantly the rear-diff. The rear differential you have to go easy on during break-in to prevent excessive heat from burning the gears.
My 2002 SS is the exact same as Last_Z described his. Mine knocks loud, when it's cold and when it's hot. My 1999 did it too but not as bad as the '02. But it (the '02) doesn't use any oil, runs great, and I've gotten 29mpg on one round trip of around 120 highway miles. Oil analysis shows it's fine too. One of these days I will get it on a dyno. But until it breaks, and I have a 100k mile warranty $0 deductible, I just turn up the radio and enjoy the car. I prefer to enjoy the car rather than bicker with some guy behind a counter, and I have plenty of other things I can worry about, like my 18hp evinrunde sank on me the other day, 3rd time that's been under water
, and my hot water heater is pissing on my cellar floor again
The reason for "500 easy miles for break-in" is for new cars, which you are also breaking-in the tranny and more importantly the rear-diff. The rear differential you have to go easy on during break-in to prevent excessive heat from burning the gears.
My 2002 SS is the exact same as Last_Z described his. Mine knocks loud, when it's cold and when it's hot. My 1999 did it too but not as bad as the '02. But it (the '02) doesn't use any oil, runs great, and I've gotten 29mpg on one round trip of around 120 highway miles. Oil analysis shows it's fine too. One of these days I will get it on a dyno. But until it breaks, and I have a 100k mile warranty $0 deductible, I just turn up the radio and enjoy the car. I prefer to enjoy the car rather than bicker with some guy behind a counter, and I have plenty of other things I can worry about, like my 18hp evinrunde sank on me the other day, 3rd time that's been under water
I'm hoping the rebuild took care of the oil cunsumption problem I had. I'm going to see what the tech that rebuilt her says and go from there. I won't worry about the noise as long as it is not burning oil and UOA's have low wear.quote:
Originally posted by 1 FMF:
for what it's worth, if it runs good and doesn't use oil then I'd say live with it. In all practicality, is it worth fighting the dealer for a new motor? Or for another rebuild? I think it's been proven that new pistons, new rings, or a complete rebuild or new crate motor doesn't guarantee you a noise-knock free LS1 engine. You can find enough threads over at the camaro/firebird and ls1 forums about this. If it actually breaks or starts using excessive oil, then it's justifyable. I say get the GM oil additive for break-in, or at least ask the dealer about it. Add it now, it's not going to hurt I don't think. You said you have 500 miles on it so far right? My personal opinion, for engine break-in only, is to get a few hours on it of fast idle (under ~2k rpms) little load to break in the cam. Then get a decent load on it so the rings seat well, and vary rpms frequently. Keep max rev's under 3k for first few hours then keep max rev's under 4k revs for next few hours. Don't bring it close to 5k after you have about 10 hours or so. Getting on the highway hard, uphill, often would be a good thing, with upshifting to keep the revs where you want them.
The reason for "500 easy miles for break-in" is for new cars, which you are also breaking-in the tranny and more importantly the rear-diff. The rear differential you have to go easy on during break-in to prevent excessive heat from burning the gears.
My 2002 SS is the exact same as Last_Z described his. Mine knocks loud, when it's cold and when it's hot. My 1999 did it too but not as bad as the '02. But it (the '02) doesn't use any oil, runs great, and I've gotten 29mpg on one round trip of around 120 highway miles. Oil analysis shows it's fine too. One of these days I will get it on a dyno. But until it breaks, and I have a 100k mile warranty $0 deductible, I just turn up the radio and enjoy the car. I prefer to enjoy the car rather than bicker with some guy behind a counter, and I have plenty of other things I can worry about, like my 18hp evinrunde sank on me the other day, 3rd time that's been under water, and my hot water heater is pissing on my cellar floor again
Yeah, I was talking about the slap. My L98 never did that and never knocked/pinged the way my LS1 does. Also, my L98 was really smooth, before the cam though. I really can't remember a difference.quote:
Originally posted by Patman:
The LT1s exhaust note is definitely louder than the LS1, but are you referring to piston slap instead? Some LT1s do have minor piston slap, mine shows up at about 1800-2000 rpm but only when the engine is cold and it's very minor, hardly noticeable.quote:
Originally posted by Last_Z:
quote:
Originally posted by Kuma:
My advice:
Get an LT1!
(Sorry I just had to say that, LS1 guys are always telling us to get one).
Actually, the LT1 are much much quieter, regarless of what GM Engineers say, but I still prefer the LS1.
Rick
The LS1 is definitely a smoother running engine, but I do love the sound of my LT1 better than my old LS1. I've got the SLP 2OTL exhaust on my LT1, which sounds much better than the open cutout I had on my LS1. I do miss the extra horsepower my LS1 had, a lot!
Anyway, have to
Rick
[ September 04, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Last_Z ]
Patman
Staff member
They still sell EOS in Canada, and by the looks of it are still producing it up here, because every dealer has huge supplies of it in their parts department.
Wait untill you need some contractors work on the house!!!.I don't know what to do but maybe document and keep records . Maybe it will run forever even with the noise. It was nice that the dealer rebuilt the engine. But as I always say that nowadays the cars are designed with very little extra left as of quality .
I have a new bottle of E.O.S. sitting here in front of me I bought a few months ago here in North Florida. It's wonderful stuff for engine assembly and run in.
I called my friend who is a GM part manager and he did not know about this and seemed to doubt it. He will probably find this out when he orders more, said he has some in stock.
btw
I was over helping the lady next door move some things and I had to back her Lumina out of the garage. It was knocking like crazy, a 2001 with about 20,000 miles. Cold engine, knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,
knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,
knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,
knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock, knock, as it warmed up it slowly went away. The funny this was that it just sounded like one thing making the knock, you would think you would here 6 different noise's, not what just appeared as one piston making the noise?
[ September 06, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
btw
I was over helping the lady next door move some things and I had to back her Lumina out of the garage. It was knocking like crazy, a 2001 with about 20,000 miles. Cold engine, knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,
knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,
knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,
knock,knock,knock,knock,knock,knock, knock, as it warmed up it slowly went away. The funny this was that it just sounded like one thing making the knock, you would think you would here 6 different noise's, not what just appeared as one piston making the noise?
[ September 06, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]
Update:
I had it in to the dealer today to see what they thought of the way it sounds after the rebuild. To me it sounds like it did before but the dealer said it really was more quiet then most LS1's they have had to work on. He said they had a Corvette in yesterday that was several times worse then mine. He told me to watch the oil and let him know what happends in 3,000 miles, if it was still burning he would go from there. If it is not burning oil then I'll live with it as long as my UOA's are good but I still think I will call the 800 number and see about getting the 100,000 mile engine warranty.
I had it in to the dealer today to see what they thought of the way it sounds after the rebuild. To me it sounds like it did before but the dealer said it really was more quiet then most LS1's they have had to work on. He said they had a Corvette in yesterday that was several times worse then mine. He told me to watch the oil and let him know what happends in 3,000 miles, if it was still burning he would go from there. If it is not burning oil then I'll live with it as long as my UOA's are good but I still think I will call the 800 number and see about getting the 100,000 mile engine warranty.
Patman
Staff member
Dealerships can be so pathetic sometimes! So just because they've heard worse, they think nothing is wrong with yours? Just an excuse that's all. If the customer is not satisfied, they should be making sure he is! Period!
So far I have been very plesent when dealing with them because they did go to the trouble of rebuilding it without having to push for it. If it get's worse or starts to burn oil I'll bring it back and if they tell me something else I'll have to start to be a jerk about it and demand this be fixed 100%.
Did you put in a performance chip?
You mentioned that the engine was pinging and knocking which explaines the piston damage in the photos you posted.
Are you using the correct octane (8) recommended by GM?
Is the rest of the engine stock, or has the cam been changed or advanced.
Forged pistons will knock, if you don't like the sound, buy a non-performance engine with cast pistons and put it in the car.
Piston clearance over about .0025" will cause an audible knock.
From looking at the pictures posted, you have detonation damage big time.
You mentioned that the engine was pinging and knocking which explaines the piston damage in the photos you posted.
Are you using the correct octane (8) recommended by GM?
Is the rest of the engine stock, or has the cam been changed or advanced.
Forged pistons will knock, if you don't like the sound, buy a non-performance engine with cast pistons and put it in the car.
Piston clearance over about .0025" will cause an audible knock.
From looking at the pictures posted, you have detonation damage big time.
Oops, that post/link was Ross from Bismark ND Sept 3/03.
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