Ravenol VMP 5W-30 1.7k mi; 2015 BMW M5, S63TU 4.4L 39k mi

[Bozman52]

Here's a link to the new oil spec: https://www.ravenol-direct.uk/ravenol-usvo-vmp-5w-30-engine-oil.html

I appreciate the oil has less than 1,800 miles on it, so the analysis may not be as valuable as some, but I change oil religiously each year regardless of mileage, so this is what I'm working with. Happy to hear opinions on what folks can derive from the data, but it seems to me there is very little wear occuring, and thankfully no sign of fuel or coolant contamination.

The only thing my very novice knowledge would point out is that the TBN of 3.09 seems to have gotten rather low for only having 1,761 miles on the oil. New VMP oil has a TBN of 8.8. Interested in thoughts on this.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

I'm no expert but my amateur impression is that oil copped a bit of a hiding.
May have been good for 3k miles?
What fuel and driving habits trip frequency and lengths.
Seems intermittent use and the n63tu are hard on oil.
Mind boggles how the oil would have faired over a 10 k mile oci.
Looks to me like you made the right choice stepping up.

 

[Bozman52]

For fuel, I always go to BP and use the highest grade they have available, which is 97 Research Octane Number (RON). I know that 99 RON is available sporadically throughout the UK, but I don't have any stations near me who have it. I'm not sure where you're located, but for the US-based folks, RON and Pump Octane Numbers (PON), which you see at the gas pumps, are not directly interchangeable, as they are measured differently. I believe a 97 RON fuel is roughly equivalent to a 93 PON in the US. I'm sure most know all this, but just wanted to put it out there in case.

Regarding driving, the car is generally used a few times a month for drives of about 25 miles at a time (almost all highways and back roads- NOT sitting in city traffic). Sometimes it will do longer multi-hour road trips, but this is maybe a couple times a year. Either way, it is always warmed up to full operating temp before I demand any power from the engine. During warm up, I don't let the RPMs go above 2500 (usually shifting closer to 2k). If I can't drive the car long enough to get it to operating temp, then it isn't even pulled out of the garage. I won't even start it to move it out of the garage to wash it! I plan the washes around when I know I will actually be driving the car. Maybe I'm overly neurotic, though. Gotta make sure to baby those diva rod bearings . . .

It's also cooled down after driving by letting the engine idle for a couple minutes. I also will leave the hood open for a couple hours after parking to let heat out, as these engines are known for melting plastic parts in the engine bay. Although not if I'm in a public place, becasue BMW guys already have enough of a douchy reputation and I don't want to add to it!

During the drives I'll do a few acceleration pulls when it makes sense (e.g. getting onto the motorway), but the car is otherwise driven fairly modestly. There are some back roads I know well whereby I will drive a bit more spirited, but that's about it. The car has never been on a track. It also has never been launched from a stop, as things tend to break when doing that and it's expensive enough to keep the car without unnecessarily breaking things!

 

[LordNilesStandish]

For fuel, I always go to BP and use the highest grade they have available, which is 97 Research Octane Number (RON). I know that 99 RON is available sporadically throughout the UK, but I don't have any stations near me who have it. I'm not sure where you're located, but for the US-based folks, RON and Pump Octane Numbers (PON), which you see at the gas pumps, are not directly interchangeable, as they are measured differently. I believe a 97 RON fuel is roughly equivalent to a 93 PON in the US. I'm sure most know all this, but just wanted to put it out there in case.

Regarding driving, the car is generally used a few times a month for drives of about 25 miles at a time (almost all highways and back roads- NOT sitting in city traffic). Sometimes it will do longer multi-hour road trips, but this is maybe a couple times a year. Either way, it is always warmed up to full operating temp before I demand any power from the engine. During warm up, I don't let the RPMs go above 2500 (usually shifting closer to 2k). If I can't drive the car long enough to get it to operating temp, then it isn't even pulled out of the garage. I won't even start it to move it out of the garage to wash it! I plan the washes around when I know I will actually be driving the car. Maybe I'm overly neurotic, though. Gotta make sure to baby those diva rod bearings . . .

It's also cooled down after driving by letting the engine idle for a couple minutes. I also will leave the hood open for a couple hours after parking to let heat out, as these engines are known for melting plastic parts in the engine bay. Although not if I'm in a public place, becasue BMW guys already have enough of a douchy reputation and I don't want to add to it!

During the drives I'll do a few acceleration pulls when it makes sense (e.g. getting onto the motorway), but the car is otherwise driven fairly modestly. There are some back roads I know well whereby I will drive a bit more spirited, but that's about it. The car has never been on a track. It also has never been launched from a stop, as things tend to break when doing that and it's expensive enough to keep the car without unnecessarily breaking things!

I'm in Australia our fuels come out of Singapore and Malaysia. We get basically the same stuff you do. BP Ultimate, Shell V Power, 98 RON.
I would suggest getting the MG Flasher App. Not so much for more power but for the custom code feature which amongst other things will allow you to vary coolant temp to extend the life of underhood plastics, especially around that hot vee. I run at 80 oC seems to work fine.
The o rings used to seal the ends of the turbo feed hard lines are especially frail.

 

[twX]

The only thing my very novice knowledge would point out is that the TBN of 3.09 seems to have gotten rather low for only having 1,761 miles on the oil. New VMP oil has a TBN of 8.8. Interested in thoughts on this.

Virgin oils and used oils are tested for TBN using two different methods. The virgin oil method reads higher. TBN depletion can also be very non-linear. TBN will drop quickly at first, then more slowly, and with some oils this will be more pronounced than with others. A TBN of 3.1 does seem low, but it may still have remained above 2.0 on a much longer OCI.

Wear metals look great. I'm not sure why there's 4 ppm lead. Any engine this new that's sold in the EU should have lead-free bearings. If you want to monitor rod bearing wear, you should find out what the rod bearing overlays are made of (lead, tin, aluminum, or silver).

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Virgin oils and used oils are tested for TBN using two different methods. The virgin oil method reads higher. TBN depletion can also be very non-linear. TBN will drop quickly at first, then more slowly, and with some oils this will be more pronounced than with others. A TBN of 3.1 does seem low, but it may still have remained above 2.0 on a much longer OCI.

Wear metals look great. I'm not sure why there's 4 ppm lead. Any engine this new that's sold in the EU should have lead-free bearings. If you want to monitor rod bearing wear, you should find out what the rod bearing overlays are made of (lead, tin, aluminum, or silver).

That's a great comment about finding out what the bearings are made from. Aftermarket may be a different composition to stock if they have been changed and would vary depending on brand.
My position with high performance high cost engines such as this is that this is definitely not the application to try and eke out the maximum use from an oil with max OCI, and that rather I would like to see a suitably robust oil changed frequently enough for there to be minimal to no measurable loss of properties. Thus ensuring maximum possible protection at all times.

 

[Marcozi]

This is what I use in my car!

 

[Bozman52]

Wear metals look great. I'm not sure why there's 4 ppm lead. Any engine this new that's sold in the EU should have lead-free bearings. If you want to monitor rod bearing wear, you should find out what the rod bearing overlays are made of (lead, tin, aluminum, or silver).

I went down the rod bearing rabbit hole a couple years ago, and from memory it's high levels of copper that can be a leading indicatior that the bearings are going (for the S63 engine, at least). The primary bearing mateiral is not copper, but seeing copper implies that the primary material is gone and the bearing is down to the bare minimum material. I don't recall what the primary material of the bearings is, unfortunately.

 

[Bozman52]

This is what I use in my car!

I've heard Ravenol is pretty hard to come by in the US.

 

[Oliveoil2]

Just drive it and enjoy it. You’re obviously not abusing this engine. But this is the reason I stopped owning BMWs, when rod bearings became a maintenance item at 60-90k. My last “new” BMW was a 2000 e39 M5. I still own a 1998 e36 M3 with 210k. Still fun to drive.

 

[Bozman52]

Just drive it and enjoy it. You’re obviously not abusing this engine. But this is the reason I stopped owning BMWs, when rod bearings became a maintenance item at 60-90k. My last “new” BMW was a 2000 e39 M5. I still own a 1998 e36 M3 with 210k. Still fun to drive.

I was aware of the rod bearing issue ahead of buying the car, but I agree that it is quite ridiculous that BMW continues to have this issue on so many of their M engines. Fortunately, it is not an engine-out job on the F10 M5, but there's a fair bit of labor involved and costs around £2,500 for a reputable independent shop to do the job.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I was aware of the rod bearing issue ahead of buying the car, but I agree that it is quite ridiculous that BMW continues to have this issue on so many of their M engines. Fortunately, it is not an engine-out job on the F10 M5, but there's a fair bit of labor involved and costs around £2,500 for a reputable independent shop to do the job.

The biggest concern I would have with the S63 is an injector giving up which washes out a cylinder and spins a bearing. A close second is coolant leaks which allow coolant to accumulate within the "V".

 

[Bozman52]

The biggest concern I would have with the S63 is an injector giving up which washes out a cylinder and spins a bearing. A close second is coolant leaks which allow coolant to accumulate within the "V".

Not wrong, my friend! My understanding is that most of the injector issues are with the 2012-13 cars (with "EU5" injectors). In 2014 they changed to an "EU6" injector and they seem to fail a lot less, but are still not 100% trustworthy. I'm not clear on the precise differences between them, but I know if your engine came with EU5 injectors, you cannot just swap in EU6 ones. As a 2015, my car has EU6, but I'm still looking at injectors as a maintenance item at some point soon .

The coolant leak you're referring to typically comes from the turbo coolant hard lines leaking from a small rubber section on top of the engine. There are super easy to replace, which I did preventatively after getting the car. I check them very often for leaks. In the newer F90 platform, the coolant reserve tank is almost guaranteed to leak and drop coolant onto a couple of the injectors . . . which then leads back to the injector failure you mentioned and blows your engine. This is not a common issue on the F10, but I still am constantly checking for coolant leaks all around the injectors.

When I installed my turbo blankets I had a good look inside the V to see if there were any historical leaks, and I fortunately found no sign of any. I jsut can't believe that BMW is now on it's third rendition of the M5 platform that uses the S63 and it's still plagued by the same stuff as when it first was used in 2012 . . .

 

[edyvw]

I was aware of the rod bearing issue ahead of buying the car, but I agree that it is quite ridiculous that BMW continues to have this issue on so many of their M engines. Fortunately, it is not an engine-out job on the F10 M5, but there's a fair bit of labor involved and costs around £2,500 for a reputable independent shop to do the job.

The rod bearings after S85 are more of a sporadic issue on some engines. N55 was sensitive on OFHG replacement if not primed and high G’s during tracking on vehicles with modified suspensions. S55 and later engines, especially B generation, don’t have those issues.
It seems also that latest reiteration of N63 is really good engine.