UOA Duramax with Amsoil AME

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06 Duramax with 72,000mi. 10,000 mi on Amsoil Ame 15w-40 & EAO Filter Oil was changed at time of sample. Compared to a sample done @ 32,000mi this one is ca-ca Iron 26 Chro 0 Nic 0 Alu 8 (flagged as abnormal) Cu 5 Lead 0 Tin 1 Cadium 0 Silver 0 Vandium 0 Silicon 10 Sodium 3 Potasium 6 Titanium 0 Moly 5 Antinomy 0 Magnanese 0 Lithium 0 Boron 6 Magnesium 119 Calcium 3890 Barium 0 Phosphrous 1286 Zinc 1443 TBN 8.41 Vis 14.3 I'm glad I didn't run this oil and filter the full 25,000mi as Amsoil suggests. The Iron and Alunimum concern me. Maybe it's time to go back to Rotella and 5,O00mi change intervels.
 
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33,940
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Oil has plenty of life left. You can tell much about Al from one sample. Fe is low IMO. Nothing to worry about. Very robust oil. I love that word.
 
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2,098
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The Rocky Mountains
Wait til you get a trend on the same oils in the same motors and then you can make a wear estimation. As a bright man around here says....single pass UOA's are typically diagnostic for contamination or catastrophic type wear and that's about it. The trend is the key. Looks like AME had a decent TBN left for 10k. Silicon wasn't that bad at 1ppm/1,000 miles so air filtration isn't bad.
 
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United We Stand
 Originally Posted By: pickled
Wait til you get a trend on the same oils in the same motors and then you can make a wear estimation. As a bright man around here says....single pass UOA's are typically diagnostic for contamination or catastrophic type wear and that's about it. The trend is the key. Looks like AME had a decent TBN left for 10k. Silicon wasn't that bad at 1ppm/1,000 miles so air filtration isn't bad.
\:\!
 
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North Carolina
 Originally Posted By: ottomatic
I'm glad I didn't run this oil and filter the full 25,000mi as Amsoil suggests. The Iron and Alunimum concern me. Maybe it's time to go back to Rotella and 5,O00mi change intervels.
I didn't think AMSOIL suggested that you run a diesel the 25k miles or one year which ever comes first. That is just for gas engines in sound condition and under 100k miles, nonturbo'ed.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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Indianapolis, IN
A few things to note. 1) Sometimes, Amsoil fluids don't perform "the best" at low OCI intervals; they actually excell as the OCI lengthens. This is not absolutely always the case, but it does sometimes happen. In no way am I attempting to slam Amsoil; just an observation of many UOAs. This comment is not a blanket statement, but rather a "sometimes happens" note. 2) 26ppm of Fe over 10k miles is high for a Dmax, no matter what the fluid brand and base stock are. That's 2.6ppm/1k miles. There are some recent Delvac 15w-40 dino UOAs that show well less than that (around 1.5ppm/1k miles). It's not panic time, but it is time for continued monitoring. 3) nothing else looked way out of bounds; the Al is a bit high, but also not time to panic here either. 4) if you continue to use this load of oil, I'd UOA every 5k miles, to track the trends and ranges. That is the only way you'll know for sure if it was a fluke (bad reading) or a true issue. 5) AFAIK - Amsoil warrants the diesel products as far as the gasser stuff; 25k miles (or better) depending upon application in "normal" use, when used as directed.
 
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Here's what I just stole shamelessly from Amsoil.com's store front for AME.... SERVICE LIFE AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil is recommended for extended drain intervals in unmodified(1), mechanically sound(2) vehicles or equipment as follows: Diesel Engine Service • Normal Service — Up to 25,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis. • Severe Service — Up to 15,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first, or longer based on oil analysis. Gasoline Engine Service • In gasoline engines, oil drain intervals may be extended up to two times (2X) the OEM* recommended drain interval (not to exceed 15,000 miles without oil analysis) or one year, whichever comes first.
 
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1,528
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Bohica
I agree with the trending, as well as the "giving a couple of oil changes to let things stabilise". I would have left the oil in, but that's just me. AME is not a lower performing oil, but I guess you have to what makes you feel the best. It is after all, your truck.
 

ottomatic

Thread starter
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193
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SE
I have been running this oil since the truck had 23,000 mi on it. 1st UOA was @ 32,000 here it is Iron 15 Chro 1 Nic 0 Alu 2 Cu 3 Lead 2 Tin 2 Cadium 0 Silver 0 Vandium 0 Silicon 10 Sodium 5 Potasium 7 Titanium 0 Moly 31 Antinomy 0 Magnanese 0 Lithium 0 Boron 19 Magnesium 11 Calcium 3260 Barium 0 Phosphrous 1047 Zinc 1310 TBN 8.1 Vis 14 ther's is abit of a discrepency. 2 is the universal average for this motor on the alunimun # Perhaps 1) Motor is still breaking in. 2) Amsoil changed its package (look @ Moly #) 3) Dmax motor might be beginning to have issues.
 
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ottomatic

Thread starter
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 Originally Posted By: D-Roc
I agree with the trending, as well as the "giving a couple of oil changes to let things stabilise". I would have left the oil in, but that's just me. AME is not a lower performing oil, but I guess you have to what makes you feel the best. It is after all, your truck.
I have been running AME since 23,000mi. This batch was the 5th. As for stabilizing thee #'s seem to be getting worse.
 
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Things aren't always going to be nice consistent results everytime. There are too many variables involved in the life of an engine. Plus, your numbers aren't even anything to worry about as we see them now. I ran Delo (ever hear anything bad about Delo?), for about the same amount of oil changes, and on the 4th or so I saw some alarming numbers....I didn't post that one. Next UOA it was back to my "normal". Like I said, you have do what makes you feel better. If you think the oil is causing issues. Change it. But I doubt AME is causing any issue.
 

dnewton3

Staff member
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Indianapolis, IN
AME is a good performing product. UOAs are intersting when viewed on an individual basis, but they are informative only when viewed with consistent application. If you really want to know how your engine and lube are co-existing, then you have to stick with one lube, and one UOA pattern (say every 5k miles) for at least seven (7) consequtive UOAs. (That can be expensive, and tests the ability of any bitoger to not dabble into other options.) After you do this series of 7 UOAs, you can then start to understand the ranges (bounds) and trends (slopes) of the attributes. Further, each time you UOA in conjunction with an OCI (which is anot alwasy requried), you add a second variable, so you must double the sample period (from 7 to 14). Start to understand why people only play around with UOAs, and become impatient, or broke? The AME is working fine. Sometimes other fluids might work better, or worse, but it's not like your choice of fluid is going to make this engine sieze soon. For some reason, and I cannot explain why, some Amsoil products induce higher Fe numbers in some diesels. Doesn't make it wrong, just different.
 

ottomatic

Thread starter
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193
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SE
Another UOA same truck, AME and EAO. 9,000 mi on oil. 81,000 on truck. Oil was changed @ time of sample. AME put back. I am changing according to DIC. BTW I am averaging 5,000 mi a month with this truck. 50% of milage is high speed (70-85mph) towing 3 to 4 tons Iron 19 Chro 0 Nic 0 Alu 7 Cu 1 Lead 1 Tin 1 Cadium 0 Silver 0 Vandium 0 Silicon 9 Sodium 4 Potasium 2 Titanium 0 Moly 5 Antinomy 0 Magnanese 0 Lithium 0 Boron 6 Magnesium 114 Calcium 3318 Barium 0 Phosphrous 1109 Zinc 1321 TBN 8.08 Vis 14.4
 
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dnewton3

Staff member
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The Fe count is likely due to your towing; absolutely nothing to worry about, as it's "normal" for that type of use. Vis stayed in grade; TBN is less than half gone. No intrusion, I presume, because it's not listed (is that a fair assumption?). A "typical" Dmax UOA; everything is just fine. \:\! I'd have to agree; that oil could have gone longer. If you're going to follow the DIC, I'd suggest you possibly consider changing to dino 15w-40. Plenty of evidence to show that option is capable up to 10K miles in many Dmax applications. You're not getting your money's worth from the AME. Your usage (high monthly mileage, with good, long runs at full temp) is what diesels are best at; why not get the value from your sump? Either use synthetic to it's full capacity, or use dino for the shorter intervals.
 
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ottomatic

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Let's just say I am on a learning curve. I have always used Rotella dino and have around or over 1 million miles on various diesels which have never had failure. None of them never even had a valve cover off. I'll agee that I am not using the oil to its full potential. However I recieved enuff AME and EAO filters for 8 oil changes on a barter. With sceptism I am using it, following GM's recomended oil change interval's. In 18,000 mi when warranty runs out. I have a decision to make wether to stick with the AME or change back to dino. It was drilled into me "never switch oils". My son has a 03 Duramax. with 125,000mi on it. Rotella dino has been run since day 1, OCI's every 5,000 mi. It tows 7 tons a couple of times a month. It's never had an UOA. and never been in shop. I plan to do a UOA on it. His driving habits are the same as mine. I am curious to see it's results. thanks for replies Ps. maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks
 
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990
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Louisiana
otto, I commend you for having an open mind and the willingness to listen to input. It drives me batty to visit most diesel truck websites and listen to those guys talk about how "black oil means you better change", and how leaving oil in for over 5K miles will lead to spontaneous combustion of the flux capacitor, blah blah blah. Now, to add my two cents......run that oil for a longer OCI. It's more than capable. Also, with the miles you're running I'd strongly consider bypass filtration.
 
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80
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princeton fl
 Originally Posted By: dnewton3
The Fe count is likely due to your towing; absolutely nothing to worry about, as it's "normal" for that type of use. Vis stayed in grade; TBN is less than half gone. No intrusion, I presume, because it's not listed (is that a fair assumption?). A "typical" Dmax UOA; everything is just fine. \:\! I'd have to agree; that oil could have gone longer. If you're going to follow the DIC, I'd suggest you possibly consider changing to dino 15w-40. Plenty of evidence to show that option is capable up to 10K miles in many Dmax applications. You're not getting your money's worth from the AME. Your usage (high monthly mileage, with good, long runs at full temp) is what diesels are best at; why not get the value from your sump? Either use synthetic to it's full capacity, or use dino for the shorter intervals.
Going by what is posted here on BITOG as far as iron PPM for a UOA, the normal range is much more than the OP iron levels.
 Quote:
Iron (Fe) 100 to 200 ppm Wear of cylinder liner, valve and gear train, oil pump, rust in system
I dont see the Iron PPM anything to even mention going by normal past UOA iron readings in general. The aluminum is more of an issue in the OP post, I did not see a fuel reading posted, wonder if he forgot or missed it? Also is it possible that any high metal readings can be from residual oil left from the last run of oil? nobody can drain out 100% of the oil, wouldnt that show up in a UOA? Especially if you are testing brands of oils? Is this why it is always recommended to trend UOA? Javier
 
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