UOA - 06 Civic SI - 13k on m1 0w40, 114k on eng

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie
Ok, you're keeping the LGT so I'll continue to talk to you.

Apparently your Civic and my wife's 99 Outback are the only cars ever to show low silicon on a K&N panel filter.

-Dennis


Actually, my Corvette had a K&N drop in filter when I bought it and I kept it in for a while as it was showing low silicon in my UOAs as well. I switched the air intake system over to a Vararam unit, which draws cold air from beside the fog lights and uses it's own cotton gauze filter like the K&N, but my silicon numbers are higher with this unit.

 

[JoeFromPA]

It's just one of those things man - for some people, they get consistently higher silicon numbers with a K&N than a more traditional, quality air filter.

Now, that being said, this board is infamous for freaking out over something cause a 2ppm chronic difference when in practicality it's a meaningless number. Oils will be switched over such a difference - long discussions will take place - etc. etc.

Anyway, my K&N is in superb condition after running for I believe about 100k miles now. It looks like new when I take it out (sans the grit) - no deformation. The seals are in great shape, new and flexible feeling. And obviously it cleans well. Not much not to like

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Had an oiled K&N on my '00 Accord for 80,000 miles and Si and wear metals were nice and low. Perhaps it matters how fine the particles are where you drive as to whether anything extra gets through.

That being said I was sucking an unknown (but probably significant based on my IAT being 30 degrees above ambient) amount of unfiltered air into my engine through a split in one of the rubber boots on my AEM CAI during my last OCI of 5800 mi and showed 11 PPM so I wonder if there's not always that much to ingest. Now that this is fixed I should get a better idea.

You've got me thinking about the 0w-40 option since I've been having some trouble with lead and my oil consistently comes in with a cSt 100C of 8.4-8.7, which is well in to the 20-grade range. I think I'll run my current PP 5w-30 out to 8k and sample now that filtration should be good and I've done some tweaking on my tune (which will probably take a year or so since I don't drive much) and make the switch if I don't see the drop in lead I'm looking for.

Thanks for posting!

 

[JoeFromPA]

With tuning, there is no way I would run anything dropping into a 20 weight in my engine. And yours is very well tuned if you are producing 242whp.

Look at my 2 10k runs with PP 5w30 (the last 2 runs that were ~10k miles in total). Even in my car, with all my highway driving, it sheared down to a 20 weight by the end.

The problem isn't that it's failing to protect (it's not in mine at least), it's that the moment it does fail is going to be the start of significant wear.

With your tuning, I wouldn't run PP 5w30. If I was going to, I'd run it for 3-5k and then switch to a 10w30 or 5w40 (or, yes, M1 0w40).

Just my take.

 

[Artem]

That's not really the case. Amsoil ASL 5w30 would shear down to a low 30 high 20 grade with my modified 07 Si. It was ran extremely hard on a daily basis and my UOA's @ 3k OCIs. (With a modified engine, I wouldn't be doing extended OCIs to begin with) with short OCIs, shearing shouldn't be much of an issue unless you throw a turbo or Supercharger into the mix, which ads massive amounts of heat.

 

[addyguy]

Joe,

You were mentioning oils you planned to run in your M5, and worry about the bearings.

It's only ver specific years of M5 that have that problem - all other years are fine to run BMW's 5W-30 oil.

You might want to PM OVERK1LL...he bought one just recently, and runs this same M1 0W-40 in his. IF you are looking to save $$$. I'd bet Rotella T6 5W-40 would work very well.

 

[JoeFromPA]

You are thinking of the rings - and no, 5w30 still isn't fine to run (though plenty have run it fine for a long time).

The rod bearing issue has only begun emerging on very high mileage models.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
You are thinking of the rings - and no, 5w30 still isn't fine to run (though plenty have run it fine for a long time).

The rod bearing issue has only begun emerging on very high mileage models.


Yes, it was the ring redesign (03/00) that allowed the use of BMW 5w30 (3.5 HTHS) and other LL-01 approved oils.

Comically, the guy with the highest mileage M5 on the m5board didn't use TWS in it.

IMHO, from what I've seen/read, that the rod bearing issue, if it is going to happen to your car, is going to happen to your car, whether you use TWS or any other oil. Enough of them have had the issue and used TWS religiously to indicate that it doesn't prevent the problem from occurring.

OTOH, there are PLENTY of them; the majority, which have had no issues whatsoever. There are various theories ranging from assembly issues to the oil redirect solenoids malfunctioning (these redirect the oil in the sump under high lateral loads and can seize) to a design issue....etc.

The M62 doesn't have the problem, and the S62 in the Z8 (though a much smaller sample size) doesn't appear to have it either.

 

[JoeFromPA]

Overkill - yeah, I've been reading the same thing. Regardless, I'm not a fan of 5w30 or 10w60 in the engine (unless racing, then 10w60 makes sense to me). I like the mid-range - 5w40, 10w40, 15w50....

Joe

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
Overkill - yeah, I've been reading the same thing. Regardless, I'm not a fan of 5w30 or 10w60 in the engine (unless racing, then 10w60 makes sense to me). I like the mid-range - 5w40, 10w40, 15w50....

Joe


Yeah, I was considering using Delvac 1 5w40 in mine, but it is quieter and smoother over the BMW 5w30 with M1 0w40, so I'm going to just stick with that in it.

 

[JoeFromPA]

I'll be buying an M5 in the next few months - I'll keep you updated. Are you a member of m5board.com?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
I'll be buying an M5 in the next few months - I'll keep you updated. Are you a member of m5board.com?


Sure am!

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: JoeFromPA
Hi all,

Here's the latest in my continuing runs:

During this change, at around 105k, the valve covers were removed and the valves adjusted by a honda tech. I took the following photos at that time (with a blackberry, but you can get the gist of how clean this engine is:

115k on the engine now. Been consuming 1 quart every 4k miles [censored] near since new - hasn't changed and frankly, with results like this, I don't want it to change

Gets warmed up gently everyday, then driven hard once warmed up. Engine has never been touched besides a valve adjustment. Entire drivetrain has never been touched. Original 02 sensors, water pump, wheel bearings, suspension....the list goes on. Dead reliable car.

The suspension feels worn out now and it's making some exhaust noises from probably a heat shield. But man, what a car.

I put M1 0w40 back in. These results are great for an oil I'm getting for ~$5-6 / quart.

I welcome comments & questions.

Joe

Cleanliness is not always a good sign -- it may also mean that antiwear additives aren't sticking onto the metal parts.

Oil consumption is very likely to be due to bad valve-stem oil seals. Chances are that it will get worse. It would also be much worse with thinner oil. If you replaced them, it could solve your problem.

I wonder what is the reason for your high bearing wear (lead). Perhaps use a cheaper oil and go with 5k OCIs. It could be the particulate count that is causing the problem.

Decrease in viscosity is also curious. It could be oil shear and/or fuel dilation.

Overall, the UOA is good though, except for high lead numbers. Thanks for the UOA.

 

[MarkD]

04 Civic, 85k miles (this is an old sample, motor has 98k miles now). Aftermarket cone air filter. Zero oil consumption - no oil added. Amsoil 0w20

 

[ltslimjim]

^Nice report on ASM. wow.