Unsigned wivers to blame for rejection of gov cash

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If Chrysler goes under, the exec's loose ALL of their pay.


Maybe I missed something ..but is Chrysler operating under some new management modality that I'm unaware of? Look at how top executives for Bethlehem Steel (the current Delphi head) did when it folded. 10's of thousands of pensions reneged on and golden parachutes plumed.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
If Chrysler goes under, the exec's loose ALL of their pay.


Not if the employees priority in bankruptcy court is higher than the share holder.

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They appear to believe they can make it without gov. help. With the gov. refusing to take bank money back in order keep control of them, any company that takes gov. money is nuts or in bed with them.


That would be nice, but then why the reason of rejecting TARP being the waiver? I've never heard about FORD complain on the waiver.

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Notice the removal of the GM CEO and their new willingness to accept a debt for equity deal...


Because Rick should have been removed years ago, and the government is doing the right thing to protect its own investment instead of letting Rick drive the company into the ground.

If a CEO's plan to recovery is to postpone the problem into the future, and have done so for years. What could be done when there is no more future to postpone to.
 
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I've never heard about FORD complain on the waiver.

Ford took no gov. money. They were the smart ones.
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Because Rick should have been removed years ago, and the government is doing the right thing to protect its own investment instead of letting Rick drive the company into the ground.

And the new guy is doing a better job? GM is still in bad shape. It's all about control, i.e. equity.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Are you willing to sign a salary cap, and have the cap be set by the government?


Is your salary uncapped?

Yes. And I have signed nothing that caps it.


:) So why don't you ask to get paid, say, twice more? Every position in an organization has a range of pay - low end and the high end (the cap). So every position has a capped salary. You don't have to sign anything that acknowledges that.

But you may try to ask your manager an see what the cap is for your job.

That is the free market at work. I get paid by my value, both by how my employer values me, and how I value myself.

Government setting an arbitrary dollar value is not a free market solution. The people that refused this money don't want arbitrary caps.


so people who cannot manage their companies deserve more than 500k a year as compensation? I think 500k for an incomeptent manager is quite a good cap.
 
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I think 500k for an incomeptent manager is quite a good cap.

What's a good cap for incompetent politicians? They just got a raise.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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I think 500k for an incomeptent manager is quite a good cap.

What's a good cap for incompetent politicians? They just got a raise.


What's that got to do with preventing The League of Distinguished Gentlemen from setting their own standards and approving it for themselves via proxy ..assuring that all the members of the club are taken care of regardless of the ultimate performance of the company?
 
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Tempest
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I've never heard about FORD complain on the waiver.

Ford took no gov. money. They were the smart ones.


They were smart all right. They borrowed early on. Let me point you at a Fox news article, your favorite source. Ford already borrowed 23 billion dollars in 2006.

Ford "boosts borrowing capacity" to 23,000,000,000 bucks!

Those are private funds...
smirk2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
Ford took no gov. money. They were the smart ones.


So Chrysler is smart not taking gov money and take a chance instead? Good for them. Don't come crying if you need it later.

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And the new guy is doing a better job? GM is still in bad shape. It's all about control, i.e. equity.


And you suggest keeping a bad apple around instead of trying to find a suitable replacement? I though you are against bail out or subsidizing the inefficiency.
 
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And you suggest keeping a bad apple around instead of trying to find a suitable replacement? I though you are against bail out or subsidizing the inefficiency.

Yes, they should have gone into bankruptcy months ago.
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest

Yes, they should have gone into bankruptcy months ago.


Now think as if you are a chrysler share holder. Do you want government bail out which may save some of your stock's value? or do you want bankruptcy which means you will lose everything?

If you (the chrysler share holder) want bail out but it was blocked by the executives due to their refusal to sign waivers, do you think they are doing their jobs?
 
Chrysler is trying to get a merger deal. The less government influence there is in the company, the easier a merger will be, since NO buyer wants anything to do with gov. money.

It's either a merger or bankruptcy.
 
Chrysler is privately held, so the ones making the decisions not to sign ARE the shareholders.

Or if they are not, Cerebus can fire them in 10 nano-seconds if they wanted them to sign the waivers.

There is not public stake in Chrysler, so the shareholder question is moot.

The owners of Chrysler are making all the decisions.
 
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The owners of Chrysler are making all the decisions.


Don't you mean the holders of larger blocks of stock? Most of your compensated board members own larger blocks of stock. While they many be dwarfed by the mutual funds and/or DRP's in total, they probably control the most voting leverage. Since they're also getting the bigger compensation packages, and having their associates approve them ..their actions may not be in the best interest of the average shareholder ..while being very advantageous to them.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
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The owners of Chrysler are making all the decisions.


Don't you mean the holders of larger blocks of stock? Most of your compensated board members own larger blocks of stock. While they many be dwarfed by the mutual funds and/or DRP's in total, they probably control the most voting leverage. Since they're also getting the bigger compensation packages, and having their associates approve them ..their actions may not be in the best interest of the average shareholder ..while being very advantageous to them.


Again, Chrysler is privately held. There is no public stock. There may be private stock, which are basically the owners of Chrysler.

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Chrysler is a privately-held company and as such has no publicly-traded stock. It was purchased and taken private by Cerberus Capital Management in 2007. Cerberus owns 80.1% of Chrysler and Daimler A.G. owns the remaining 19.9%.
Chrysler LLC has been a separate entity from Daimler AG since August of 2007, when majority interest in the Chrysler Group was transferred to Cerberus Capital Management.
Incidentally, the stock ticker for Daimler AG is DAI. Formerly, the DaimlerChrysler AG stock ticker was DCX.

As of Jan. 20, 2009. FIAT has agreed to buy 35% of Chrysler LLC.

Jeepand Dodge are owned by Chrysler. Chrysler is a private company and as such no ticker symbol exists and it is not traded on any stock exchanges.
 
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But the negotiations have taken a new direction. Treasury now has an agreement in principle with the U.A.W., whose members’ pensions and retiree health care benefits would be protected in the event of a bankruptcy filing, said the people with knowledge of the discussions, who asked for anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/business/24chrysler.html?_r=3&hp
I wonder if this might have something to do with it. Talk about a golden parachute...
Privatized profits, and socialized costs, as Gary is fond of saying.
 
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