United Airlines

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Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Everything thet do seems to go whatsits up!

https://www.theguardian.com/business/201...-dies-uk-flight

Remember this one?

http://sentium.com/a-public-relations-di...ews-on-youtube/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

Apologies for the Youtube but that is the only link that I could find for this.

Overall it does not seem to be a good picture of their 'service'.



Nope, sure doesn't seem to be a good picture.

You've brought up two incidents, the 2009 guitar, and this 2017 problem with a rabbit...on an airline that carried 95 million people last year.

95 million customers last year - hundreds of millions of customer contacts between reservation agents, gate agents, flight attendants and pilots every year, which add up to billions of customer contacts that clearly happened between these two incidents.

So, your two data points, out of billions, aren't really telling the whole story then, are they?

Most of the Guardian article was about the forceful removal of Dr. Dao, not the rabbit, which tells me that the journalists at the Guardian are looking to sell a few papers while the social-media fueled outrage remains fresh.

I'll provide a couple of more data points about United, so that you, and the rest of BITOG who don't fly much, have never been on United, and are forming your opinion based on few facts, can make a more informed judgement...unless you wanted to just bash United, which seems to be the sport de jour these days....and in which case, you don't really care about making an informed judgement.

I'll start with a couple of United "firsts", not all of them, we don't have space, but a few, so you can get a better idea of the company: flight attendants, the first in the industry, were a United innovation in 1930. United was the first airline to adopt flight simulators, in 1954. First to operate the Boeing 767. Launch customer for the 777 and United pilots worked with Boeing to help design the airplane. First to fly airplanes directly over the North Pole from US to Asia. First commercial aviation flight on biofuel. First Major airline to go paperless in the cockpit. We were first to use aircraft radar and a whole host of other innovations, but I'll move on to today...

Pets: United does more than any other airline to ensure the safety of pets. The 767-300/400 that transported this rabbit, all have heated bulk cargo compartments, so that the pets stay warm during the flight. We generally keep it between 62 and 68F. Pets are transported in vans and the vans stay on the ramp, with the pet in climate controlled conditions, until the last minute when they're boarded. I've had dogs, cats, birds, lizards, even cows (a calf, actually) in my airplane. When they're on my airplane, I usually take the time to find the owner and let them know that their pet is safely on board. With a picture if I'm able to do it. The cow didn't have an owner, it was being shipped to a buyer...

Other airlines put pets on the baggage carts and drag them around the ramp, so that they get the full exposure to the heat/noise/cold of the ramp conditions. I see it all the time in airports: pets on baggage carts. There are no statistics on pet deaths, but United carries a lot more pets than other airlines, so we take extra care with pets. We instituted our "Pet Safe" program in 2010.

Fantasy Flights: in 1992, United partnered with Make a Wish foundation to offer "Fantasy Flights". United provided airplanes and gates, free of charge, and United employees volunteered their time. Now, every year, in early December, at every major airport served by United, Cleveland, Chicago, LAX, SFO, IAD, IAH, DEN, and others, Children who are terminally ill board a United airplane, and the airplane takes off. It returns to the same airport, but to a different gate that's been decorated as the North Pole. The different gate is staffed by United employees (the same ones that have been continually bashed on this forum and in the news now for three weeks as uncaring) dressed as Elves - and the airplane full of terminally ill children gets to meet Santa at the North Pole. That airplane took off, flew (for just a few minutes) and they are magically transported to the North Pole.

Pearl Harbor Survivors: On December 6th of this past year, United Airlines flew, for FREE, every Pearl Harbor Survivor, and their families, in First Class, to Honolulu for the 75th anniversary commemoration of Pearl Harbor. I was honored to shake the hand of a Battle Ship Gunnery Chief who I met in DIA as I was going to work. We chatted on the train. I was in the presence of a hero, and United flew every one of those heroes to Pearl Harbor.

Disabled Vets: For two decades, we have helped those warriors take to the slopes of Aspen, Colorado, for the National Disabled Veterans Winter Sports Clinic, a week-long event established by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to give soldiers with serious injuries a place to experience skiing, rock climbing, snowmobiling, sled hockey and snowshoeing. We flew over 500 vets to Colorado for this event this year. We block seats a YEAR in advance, so that wheelchair and other disabilities can be accommodated.

US Olympic Team: We transported the entire US Olympic Team to Rio this year. We've been an Olympic sponsor and the official transport of TEAM USA since the 80s. We safely carried everything from kayaks, to track and field equipment like pole-vaulting poles, and skis, to Olympic games all over the world. We accommodate all kinds of gear to make sure TEAM USA is ready to compete.

https://hub.united.com/united-transporting-team-usa-equipment-1975172339.html

Performance: United's performance in all of the DOT metrics: cancellations, delays, mishandled bags have improved dramatically in the past few years as the merger has been accomplished. Involuntary denied boardings now are half what they were a few years ago, not that the news reports that. Mishandled bags is dramatically lower.

For example: SWA arrived on time 78.7 % of the time while bumping 1.08 out of 10,000 passengers. United arrived on time 78.2% of the time while bumping 0.77 out of 10,000 passengers. The top airline in on time was Virgin America at 79.9% on time. All of the top airlines are fiercely competitive for on time performance, but the bump statistics are interesting, in light of the Dr. Dao incident.

We get positive customer feedback every day. Our Mileage Plus loyalty program (another industry first, by the way) is consistently ranked as the best. So is our app. We've partnered with Saks 5th Avenue for our First Class service and celebrity chefs for our food. You're focused on a couple of news stories White Wolf, but I encourage you to come try our airline. We have the best route structure of any airline in the world, seriously, the best, and our competitors know it, and we can get you anywhere you want to go on this planet.
 
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I don't get this hatred of the airlines. They provide a transportation service, with an exemplary record of safety. AND, they get you there, in relative comfort, nearly instantly when compared to other methods.

There is always the option to take the train, or drive, when travelling domestically. International travel can be done via boat.
 
i think the entire process of security, charging for luggage, overbooking, expensive fairs from US airlines(check out euro fares of what they could charge and union old flight crew does not paint a pretty picture for US airlines overall.

United is just a scape goat and awful at PR.

"Video killed the radio star" applies. Business travel is WAY down which in past necessity. Now inexpensive video conferencing saves oodles of time and money and covers many needs and hurts the airlines bottom dollar.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
i think the entire process of security, charging for luggage, overbooking, expensive fairs from US airlines(check out euro fares of what they could charge and union old flight crew does not paint a pretty picture for US airlines overall.

United is just a scape goat and awful at PR.

"Video killed the radio star" applies. Business travel is WAY down which in past necessity. Now inexpensive video conferencing saves oodles of time and money and covers many needs.


You're about 10 years behind the trend. Video conferencing was hailed as the business trend in 2007. Air travel dropped the next year, and pundits took that as proof that business travel was dead, but there was a recession going on. Business travel is back up and United flies a LOT of business travelers. They are 75% of the airline's revenue. The remaining 25% is from leisure travelers.

Union old flight crew?

Yeah, sure, OK...bash unions and my pay if you like, but if you want a former US Navy fighter pilot with 30+ years of flying experience operating your airplane, you're going to have to pay. I can get a very good job not flying, been offered several, so flying has to be salary-competitive. But even if I made, say, $270 an hour, flying an airplane with 180 people in it, (Those are SWA numbers, by the way) your cost, as a ticket-holder, is $1.50/hour for the Captain. Pretty cheap when you think about it. It's all the other stuff that adds up in the ticket. The hundreds of people that make an airline run: gate agents, dispatchers, mechanics, baggage handlers, ramp workers, flight attendants, marketing, sales, etc. all cost. So do airplanes. That 737 you're flying on cost $75 to $100 million. Big airplanes cost more. And even at today's prices, fuel still tops ALL of those costs.

Now, if you're OK with a third-world trained pilot who meets the minimum standards, well, sure, that pilot will work for cheaper...and you've got what you paid for..

Sure hope everything remains routine on that flight.
 
As a paying business traveler, I'll be using United at the next time it suits me. Probably an overnight home from California. United has treated me well on several flights, nothing spectacular and nothing poor. I get on the plane, find my seat, follow the rules and hopefully catch a few ZZZs.

I just hope the direct from SFO to BWI is back at that time. I missed it in January when I had to fly SFO-EWR-BWI.
 
Astro, you are a thoughtful and well spoken advocate for commercial aviation in general, and United Airlines in particular.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Astro, you are a thoughtful and well spoken advocate for commercial aviation in general, and United Airlines in particular.


+1 and very excellent and researched response to the OP's attempt to go with the grapevine flow of social media outrage.

Social media simply proves beyond all shadow of doubt that some people are champing at the bit to gossip and fuel the rumor mill at the drop of a hat. Except that now the news media accepts the sketchy hearsay of social media and the blogosphere as worthy of re-packaging and broadcast, thus [knowingly or unknowingly] fulfilling the propaganda technique of "Repeat a lie often enough and the people will believe it as truth..." (Joseph Goebbels, March 1933, Berlin Germany).

I'd fly United without a second thought, same with American. This notion that all the constitutional protections that apply to sitting on a park bench in a public park also apply equally to a seat on an airliner are [censored]. You enter into a contract with the airline for that seat and you agree to abide by certain standards of conduct and cooperation for the benefit of the crew's safe operation of the flight and proper environment and respect of your fellow passengers.

As Cujet duly noted, flying commercial to reach your destination is a privilege not a right. Don't like the rules that govern the privilege, then travel by one of the other methods.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Astro, you are a thoughtful and well spoken advocate for commercial aviation in general, and United Airlines in particular.

+1
Do you know how often do people lose their seat once they've boarded the plane? That practice seems to be asking for trouble IMO. I've volunteered to get bumped when I was in college and it was taken care of an hour before boarding.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
union old flight crew


Because of our "old union" ways we're highly trained professional in our trade. We are constantly tested and evaluated to make sure we're on our A-game. We fly very sophisticated, high performance machinery from 0-550 mph in a very hostile environment for human life.

Sure there are pilots around the world that will fly for peanuts. But if you have a very inexperienced crew things can happen quickly. For example let's say you're cruising along and have a cabin decompression and no structure damage. Add some electrical failures and your inexperienced crew panics and fails to get your plane below 14,000 feet quick. Even if they hesitate for a few minutes you can pass out from hypoxia and die. Those oxygen mask don't provide and endless supply of o2..


Commercial aviation is a privilege with lots of rules and regs. Mostly for YOUR safety.
 
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Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: Win
Astro, you are a thoughtful and well spoken advocate for commercial aviation in general, and United Airlines in particular.

+1
Do you know how often do people lose their seat once they've boarded the plane? That practice seems to be asking for trouble IMO. I've volunteered to get bumped when I was in college and it was taken care of an hour before boarding.


United officially ended the practice, along with several policy changes in the past few weeks. We won't remove passengers who are already boarded unless they present a safety and/or security risk.

I believe that the removal of folks who have already boarded was setting the gate agents, and crew, up for failure. Our new policies are designed to prevent EVER having to remove an already-boarded passenger because of an over sold situation.

Please allow me to clarify: the flight with Dr. Dao wasn't over sold until boarding was actually in progress. The crew schedulers at United Express, by booking an entire crew of four on an airplane that seats only 68, at the last minute, created a situation that put gate agents, and cabin crew, in an untenable position: take people off the airplane or cancel a later flight full of people.

That's a set up. No two ways about it. In the Navy vernacular, it was known as a ---- sandwich. The new policies, which span all of flight operations as well as in flight and crew scheduling, will prevent that from happening again.

It's my personal hope that this causes a re-examination, and re-bidding of the United Express carriers. They represent US. If they do so poorly, then we need to address that in a serious, comprehensive, and thoughtful manner.
 
Life is a bit different now that every person anywhere nearby is by default probably armed with a smartphone and for good or bad able to record and document almost anything of interest.
 
Astro14 - you're posts here have been incredible! I wish I had the conversational skills you do. I'd probably be a lot better off in life than I am.

Thanks again!
34.gif


And thank you for your service!
 
And to be honest, I think Astro actually hit on a portion of the issue in his last post: The use of smaller carriers to fly the small planes. It may be a small distinction, but it was United Express Schedulers that set the gate crew up for failure when then they scheduled the crew on a full United Express Flight.

Yes, the plane may wear United colors, and the advertising, marketing, etc... is all United. But the plane is owned and operated by a "regional" airline, with their own crews, dispatch, etc...

And as Astro pointed out, the general public has no clue - so when a United Express Carrier does something not smart, it reflects on United - not the regional carrier.

Regional carriers for United include some carriers like SkyWest, Republic, Mesa, TransStates, etc... Not exactly household names, but they fly a lot of flights under the banners of the majors.

Not an easy differentiation to make, but one set up by the decision to pit regional carriers against each other in a quest for lower pricing rather than fly those flights in house and control the entire picture...
 
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Astro14 - you're posts here have been incredible! I wish I had the conversational skills you do. I'd probably be a lot better off in life than I am.

Thanks again!
34.gif


And thank you for your service!



+1,000
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Life is a bit different now that every person anywhere nearby is by default probably armed with a smartphone and for good or bad able to record and document almost anything of interest.



But not ONE of these has recorded everything from start to finish - the phones come out after the conflict has started, so it's impossible to tell from the phone video who is at fault, and what, exactly, happened.

For example: Let's say I push you, hard, both hands, and knock you down flat. You come back and get in my face, then my wife starts filming with her phone.

You will forever be known as the aggressor on Social Media. The facts are all there: you yelling, me standing quietly, non-confrontational...everything that every social justice warrior in the media needs to vilify you. A complete, Facebook-worthy film clip of you losing your cool.

And that's the problem: we live in a cell phone video world that is, inadvertently, edited to present only one side of the case.

But people rush to judgement without even WANTING to know what led up to the events that were recorded. They're able to firmly and completely reach their conclusion based only on the facts with which they're being presented. That lack of fairness, that lack of desire to know the truth and uncover ALL the facts is what worries me...not the presence of cameras...
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: sasilverbullet
Astro14 - you're posts here have been incredible! I wish I had the conversational skills you do. I'd probably be a lot better off in life than I am.

Thanks again!
34.gif


And thank you for your service!



+1,000


You guys are very kind.

Thank you.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Life is a bit different now that every person anywhere nearby is by default probably armed with a smartphone and for good or bad able to record and document almost anything of interest.



But not ONE of these has recorded everything from start to finish - the phones come out after the conflict has started, so it's impossible to tell from the phone video who is at fault, and what, exactly, happened.

For example: Let's say I push you, hard, both hands, and knock you down flat. You come back and get in my face, then my wife starts filming with her phone.

You will forever be known as the aggressor on Social Media. The facts are all there: you yelling, me standing quietly, non-confrontational...everything that every social justice warrior in the media needs to vilify you. A complete, Facebook-worthy film clip of you losing your cool.

And that's the problem: we live in a cell phone video world that is, inadvertently, edited to present only one side of the case.

But people rush to judgement without even WANTING to know what led up to the events that were recorded. They're able to firmly and completely reach their conclusion based only on the facts with which they're being presented. That lack of fairness, that lack of desire to know the truth and uncover ALL the facts is what worries me...not the presence of cameras...


Very good points.

Locally, a police officer was accused of abusing a citizen until several videos popped up showing just the opposite of what the citizen and several friends claimed.

But, you are correct. Someone still has to determine what really happened and a video can mislead just as well as it can confirm. Still the trend continues and many police officers are equipped with body cams. For most cops it's a blessing. For some it's a nanny and for a very few it's a curse.

It appears from YouTube videos that almost every Russian car has a camera and the videos produced make for great entertainment. The result is that we think every driver in Russia is an idiot. Maybe that's not so good.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver
i think the entire process of security, charging for luggage, overbooking, expensive fairs from US airlines(check out euro fares of what they could charge and union old flight crew does not paint a pretty picture for US airlines overall.
Dude...you're laying it all on the airlines in general and United in particular while remaining oblivious regarding the role both the govn't and FAA (I repeat myself) play.

"The price of fossil fuels will necessarily skyrocket". Remember who said that? The airline industry uses a HUGE amount of fuel due to the nature of the business.

Connect-the-dots......
 
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