United Airlines Places Orders for 100 787s + 100 Options, Orders 56 737MAX + 44 Exercised Options

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Massive widebody order for a US carrier - will become the largest 787 operator, even without the 100 optional 787 orders.

https://aviationweek.com/air-transp...ng-787s-revises-airbus-a350-delivery-schedule

787

United Airlines has opted to order Boeing 787s to support a significant portion of its widebody replacement program, but the airline’s long-standing order for Airbus A350s remains intact—for now. The Chicago-based operator has ordered 100 787s and has options for 100 more. Deliveries are scheduled to begin in 2024 and continue through 2032. United said it has the flexibility to choose among the 787-8, 787-9 and 787-10 variants. It is not surprising United opted to stick with Boeing for the bulk of its widebody replacement. The airline operates 61 787s—16 787-10s, nine 787-8s and 36 787-9s—according to Aviation Week’s Fleet Discovery database. Only All Nippon Airways, with 68, has more.

United still has 45 Airbus A350-900s on order stemming from a 2012 agreement for 25 that was revised in 2013 and then again in 2017.

During a conference call to discuss United’s future widebody fleet, the airline’s CFO Gerry Laderman said the company has entered into an agreement with Airbus to modify the delivery schedule of the aircraft. It is not the first time deliveries of those widebodies have been pushed back. Laderman stated the A350 deliveries are not scheduled to start until 2030, and added the Airbus widebody was a “really great option” as a 777 replacement. “But given the age of a good chunk of our 777s, the ultimate decision on what to replace the 777s with in their entirety is something we don’t have to decide right now,” United’s CFO said. During the time period of the scheduled 787 deliveries, United will have roughly 120 aircraft—its 767s and some 777s—that will reach 30 years of age, Laderman said. The 100 new 787s will replace the 767s and some of the 777s, he confirmed. United has declared all of its 767 should exit its fleet by 2030.

Aviation Week’s Fleet Discovery database shows the airline has 30 767-300ERs and 12 767-400ERs in service. Three 767-300ERs are parked/in reserve and four are parked. Three of the 767-400ERs are parked and a single aircraft is in storage. Highlighting United’s existing large installed base of 787 widebodies, the company’s CEO Scott Kirby explained that in a “world where we’re trying to bring [in] 2,500 pilots a year and grow the airline, introducing a new fleet type slows that down dramatically.”

Kirby also concluded the 787 was a better replacement for the 767s because the 787 is smaller, “and the right time for the [A]350 versus the 787s conversation is when we’re replacing the bulk of the 777s, which really doesn’t begin until the end of the decade.” The airline has 48 777-200ERs and 20 777-300ERs in service. United also operates 17 777-200s. Five of its 777s are parked/in reserve and six are parked. The airline has also added aircraft to its 737 MAX orderbook. United has exercised options to buy 44 of the aircraft for delivery from 2024 to 2026 and ordered another 56 of the narrowbody scheduled for delivery in 2027 and 2028.

Beyond 2026, Laderman said United is looking at a combination of replacements for some of its oldest narrowbodies and “looking at potential incremental growth… Whether those are replacement or growth, we don’t have to decide today, but we need to start thinking about filling the orderbook.” Prior to the latest expansion of it MAX orderbook, United had 341 of the narrowbodies on order, according to Fleet Discovery. The airline also has 120 A321neos in its orderbook.

Counting the latest orders, United expects to take delivery of roughly 700 new narrow and widebody jets by year-end 2032 with an average of more than two each week in 2023 and over three in 2024.
 
Massive widebody order for a US carrier - will become the largest 787 operator, even without the 100 optional 787 orders.

https://aviationweek.com/air-transp...ng-787s-revises-airbus-a350-delivery-schedule

787

United Airlines has opted to order Boeing 787s to support a significant portion of its widebody replacement program, but the airline’s long-standing order for Airbus A350s remains intact—for now. The Chicago-based operator has ordered 100 787s and has options for 100 more. Deliveries are scheduled to begin in 2024 and continue through 2032. United said it has the flexibility to choose among the 787-8, 787-9 and 787-10 variants. It is not surprising United opted to stick with Boeing for the bulk of its widebody replacement. The airline operates 61 787s—16 787-10s, nine 787-8s and 36 787-9s—according to Aviation Week’s Fleet Discovery database. Only All Nippon Airways, with 68, has more.

United still has 45 Airbus A350-900s on order stemming from a 2012 agreement for 25 that was revised in 2013 and then again in 2017.

During a conference call to discuss United’s future widebody fleet, the airline’s CFO Gerry Laderman said the company has entered into an agreement with Airbus to modify the delivery schedule of the aircraft. It is not the first time deliveries of those widebodies have been pushed back. Laderman stated the A350 deliveries are not scheduled to start until 2030, and added the Airbus widebody was a “really great option” as a 777 replacement. “But given the age of a good chunk of our 777s, the ultimate decision on what to replace the 777s with in their entirety is something we don’t have to decide right now,” United’s CFO said. During the time period of the scheduled 787 deliveries, United will have roughly 120 aircraft—its 767s and some 777s—that will reach 30 years of age, Laderman said. The 100 new 787s will replace the 767s and some of the 777s, he confirmed. United has declared all of its 767 should exit its fleet by 2030.

Aviation Week’s Fleet Discovery database shows the airline has 30 767-300ERs and 12 767-400ERs in service. Three 767-300ERs are parked/in reserve and four are parked. Three of the 767-400ERs are parked and a single aircraft is in storage. Highlighting United’s existing large installed base of 787 widebodies, the company’s CEO Scott Kirby explained that in a “world where we’re trying to bring [in] 2,500 pilots a year and grow the airline, introducing a new fleet type slows that down dramatically.”

Kirby also concluded the 787 was a better replacement for the 767s because the 787 is smaller, “and the right time for the [A]350 versus the 787s conversation is when we’re replacing the bulk of the 777s, which really doesn’t begin until the end of the decade.” The airline has 48 777-200ERs and 20 777-300ERs in service. United also operates 17 777-200s. Five of its 777s are parked/in reserve and six are parked. The airline has also added aircraft to its 737 MAX orderbook. United has exercised options to buy 44 of the aircraft for delivery from 2024 to 2026 and ordered another 56 of the narrowbody scheduled for delivery in 2027 and 2028.

Beyond 2026, Laderman said United is looking at a combination of replacements for some of its oldest narrowbodies and “looking at potential incremental growth… Whether those are replacement or growth, we don’t have to decide today, but we need to start thinking about filling the orderbook.” Prior to the latest expansion of it MAX orderbook, United had 341 of the narrowbodies on order, according to Fleet Discovery. The airline also has 120 A321neos in its orderbook.

Counting the latest orders, United expects to take delivery of roughly 700 new narrow and widebody jets by year-end 2032 with an average of more than two each week in 2023 and over three in 2024.
Good for United and a great time to be a pilot ( in the U.S ) at United.

Their training dept ( sim, sim instructors, line training pilots and check pilots ) must be extremely busy.

Incredible:
Counting the latest orders, United expects to take delivery of roughly 700 new narrow and widebody jets by year-end 2032 with an average of more than two each week in 2023 and over three in 2024.
 
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Good for United and a great time to be a pilot ( in the U.S ) at United.

Their training dept ( sim, sim instructors, line training pilots and check pilots ) must be extremely busy.
We are. I work part time in the Training Center as an Evaluator.

A large part of the reason we went with 787 vs. A350 is that the incorporation of a new fleet type, which requires new training devices, new instructors, etc. would slow down our pilot training pipeline.

Our pilot training pipeline is our limiting factor on growth. We’ve got the airplanes. We’ve got the cities and passenger demand, but we cannot train enough new pilots each year. Our new hire throughput is about 2,500/year.

In addition, we’re training upgrades, seat transitions, etc. for existing pilots.

We just took delivery of our 40th full flight simulator, and we broke ground this past summer on a new building to house 12 more full flight simulators.
 
They must have proven themselves [787] to be profitable to operate.
 
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We are. I work part time in the Training Center as an Evaluator.

A large part of the reason we went with 787 vs. A350 is that the incorporation of a new fleet type, which requires new training devices, new instructors, etc. would slow down our pilot training pipeline.

Our pilot training pipeline is our limiting factor on growth. We’ve got the airplanes. We’ve got the cities and passenger demand, but we cannot train enough new pilots each year. Our new hire throughput is about 2,500/year.

In addition, we’re training upgrades, seat transitions, etc. for existing pilots.

We just took delivery of our 40th full flight simulator, and we broke ground this past summer on a new building to house 12 more full flight simulators.
Incredible.

I know some Canadian pilots trying to get a green card to fly down there but it’s very hard to get one for pilots.

Must be a nice being in Denver doing training.

To be honest, I find line flying a bit boring , doing training would spice things up a bit.
 
They must have proven themselves [787] to be profitable.
The 787 is a wonderful jet. It sips fuel, flies fast, goes really, really far. Guys who fly it love it.

As fuel costs increase, and they will, airplanes like the 787 and the 737 Max give operators a big fuel cost advantage.

For comparison, the 787-8 has roughly the cabin size of a 767-300.

But it flies at 0.85 vs. 0.82 of the 763. It burns about 60% of the fuel. It has much greater range.

On long flights, that speed and fuel burn are a huge advantage. The range offers new possibilities and new markets.

When going to smaller markets, a medium size airplane that can offer direct service (e.g. SFO to Chengdu) is a huge time savings for customers who would otherwise have to connect in a major hub (e.g. Tokyo, or HKG in my above example).
 
The 787 is a wonderful jet. It sips fuel, flies fast, goes really, really far. Guys who fly it love it.

As fuel costs increase, and they will, airplanes like the 787 and the 737 Max give operators a big fuel cost advantage.

For comparison, the 787-8 has roughly the cabin size of a 767-300.

But it flies at 0.85 vs. 0.82 of the 763. It burns about 60% of the fuel. It has much greater range.

On long flights, that speed and fuel burn are a huge advantage. The range offers new possibilities and new markets.

When going to smaller markets, a medium size airplane that can offer direct service (e.g. SFO to Chengdu) is a huge time savings for customers who would otherwise have to connect in a major hub (e.g. Tokyo, or HKG in my above example).
The fuel efficiency is amazing.
 
Incredible.

I know some Canadian pilots trying to get a green card to fly down there but it’s very hard to get one for pilots.

Must be a nice being in Denver doing training.

To be honest, I find line flying a bit boring , doing training would spice things up a bit.
I‘ve worked in our training center off and on since starting 25+ years ago. 747-400 instructor. 757/767 instructor. Now, 757/767 evaluator (which is just what it sounds like, I do annual checks, rating rides, things like that. Instructors teach the basics of procedures, maneuvers, etc.).
 
The fuel efficiency is amazing.
Agreed. The airplane is amazing.

Now, on a shorter leg, where the fuel savings is smaller, having a paid for (no lease cost, no ownership payments) airplane, like a 763, or our 764, can be cost competitive overall. We spent over 100 million for new Polaris (lie flat, all aisle access, pod seats) interiors for our 767 fleet (a bit over 50 airplanes) - so, we do intend to operate them for the foreseeable future. 2030 at least.
 
My airline won’t pay for training pilots ( based elsewhere ) to commute to the two bases where training is done and they prefer FO‘s ( less money ) in the sim as instructors.

Line training Captains are not paid enough for the amount of work and responsibility at my airline IMHO.

Obviously, check pilots are line Captains unlike the sim instructors.
 
Agreed. The airplane is amazing.

Now, on a shorter leg, where the fuel savings is smaller, having a paid for (no lease cost, no ownership payments) airplane, like a 763, or our 764, can be cost competitive overall. We spent over 100 million for new Polaris (lie flat, all aisle access, pod seats) interiors for our 767 fleet (a bit over 50 airplanes) - so, we do intend to operate them for the foreseeable future. 2030 at least.
Great point about the costs being competitive on shorter legs for the reasons you point out.
 
My airline won’t pay for training pilots ( based elsewhere ) to commute to the two bases where training is done and they prefer FO‘s ( less money ) in the sim as instructors.

Line training Captains are not paid enough for the amount of work and responsibility at my airline.

Obviously, check pilots are line Captains unlike the sim instructors.
We aren’t paid enough here for the work we do. I get an extra $27 an hour for doing line check work.

A joke when my ability to trip trade (into better trips, or premium pay trips) makes me far more money than being an LCA. Futher, once a student is assigned, my trip is “frozen” and I can’t trade for a better one.

Last summer, I picked up just one premium pay trip - a short notice need that offered 100% extra pay. That one trip made me more money than an entire year of being a check pilot.

But like most of my peers, I don’t do the check airman work for the money. And, like most of my peers, I expect the next contract will address the appalling lack of pay we get (regional carriers pay their check airman between 2 and 4 times the hourly bonus I get, for teaching on an RJ, while I’m teaching on an international widebody).

For the record, we all expected this order. It’s good news, but it’s not a surprise.

Post in thread 'End of an Era. The last 747 will roll out this evening.'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ill-roll-out-this-evening.362836/post-6317941
 
We aren’t paid enough here for the work we do. I get an extra $27 an hour for doing line check work.

A joke when my ability to trip trade (into better trips, or premium pay trips) makes me far more money than being an LCA. Futher, once a student is assigned, my trip is “frozen” and I can’t trade for a better one.

Last summer, I picked up just one premium pay trip - a short notice need that offered 100% extra pay. That one trip made me more money than an entire year of being a check pilot.

But like most of my peers, I don’t do the check airman work for the money. And, like most of my peers, I expect the next contract will address the appalling lack of pay we get (regional carriers pay their check airman between 2 and 4 times the hourly bonus I get, for teaching on an RJ, while I’m teaching on an international widebody).

For the record, we all expected this order. It’s good news, but it’s not a surprise.

Post in thread 'End of an Era. The last 747 will roll out this evening.'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ill-roll-out-this-evening.362836/post-6317941
I respect your ethics not doing it just for the money.

My point is , I won’t commute and pay my own expenses to do training ( sim base ).

The main thing is the right person being selected to do training and that part my airline has always seemed to get right.

Yes, I saw the rumours in the aviation news last week about the order.

Fly safe.
 
I‘ve worked in our training center off and on since starting 25+ years ago. 747-400 instructor. 757/767 instructor. Now, 757/767 evaluator (which is just what it sounds like, I do annual checks, rating rides, things like that. Instructors teach the basics of procedures, maneuvers, etc.).
Will you move to evaluator on the 787, and if so what retaining is required for you?
 
I just want to know if the seats are going to be any wider and there is more than 3" of legroom........if there is then I will be impressed.
 
By the time UAL receives the last of this initial 100 A/C order in 2032, their oldest 787-8s will be 20 years old.
 
I just want to know if the seats are going to be any wider and there is more than 3" of legroom........if there is then I will be impressed.


I can guarantee you that there is much more than 3” of legroom on these.
 
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